Mindset, marketing and making online friends with Emma-Louise Parkes

For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode56

Tune in to this episode to hear me chat with my very good friend Emma-Louise Parkes, a mindset coach and consultant for introverts. She’s been on the podcast many times, but we talk about life and business almost daily and decided to bring our convo to the mic to share our thoughts with you. 

In this episode, we compare some of the different types of support you can get from a coach or consultant and what to consider before making investments in yourself and your business. We also get into how we feel about icky marketing in the online business space and share some of our frustrations... But we also talk about all the things we love about being an online business owner. 

Topics discussed:

1. Why mindset and strategy work are both important
2. How sales language can turn icky fast in online marketing
3. The energetic exchange of investing in yourself
4. How Emma-Louise was shamed on a sales call for wanting to take time to think about a decision 
5. The vulnerability that comes with building your business
6. How there is never going to be one “magic” thing that transforms your business
7. Why holistic programs help you achieve overall results
8. What puts you in a “boom and bust” cycle 
9. Quantum leaps in your business and how it’s not just a sexy marketing term, it actually takes long-term continued work. 
10. How the online coaching space can create codependency 
11. How Emma-Louise and I are collaborating together in person in London with a VIP day

Links/Resources Mentioned:

• London VIP Day with Jordan and Emma-Louise (only 2 spots)
• $100M Offers: How To Make Offers So Good People Feel Stupid Saying No by Alex Hormozi

Connect with Jordan Schanda King:

• Website: easyscaling.com
• Instagram: @jordanschandaking

Connect with this week’s guest, Emma-Louise Parkes:

• Website: theambitiousintrovert.com
• Instagram: @ambitiousintrovert
• LinkedIn: Emma-Louise Parkes
• Facebook Group: The Ambitious Introvert® Network

Love what you heard? Reviews really help us out! As a thank you, you can get my 90-Day Planning Formula ($97 Value) by submitting a screenshot of your 5-star review at easyscaling.com/podcastreview

Transcript

Ep#56

Jordan: All righty. In this episode, I am chatting with my very good friend, Emma Louise. She's back on the podcast. so you've probably heard her. If you are a longtime listener, she is a mindset coach, a podcast host, a business consultant, and specifically works with introverted entrepreneurs. She has become such a good friend of mine, and we're gonna talk about that.

We're also gonna talk about. This combination of strategy and mindset and why it's important to have both. How that has shown up in our own businesses and also in our clients. We talk about. Navigating this, decision of what type of support you even need and, and understanding that before you make investments into yourself and into your business.

We talk about some things that are a little spicy. you'll know. I like to, rant just a smidge about some things that, that make me frustrated about the online space. So we get into that, but we also talk about the flip side. That is how cool. This space is how cool it is to exist virtually and have access to so many interesting people and things and resources because of the fact that we do business online.

And so that's a fun conversation. And, we also tease something really cool that we are working on behind the scenes that's upcoming here in about a month. so tune in to find all of the details out about that. And I hope you enjoy this conversation. 

 Hello. Hello. Welcome everyone, and welcome Emma Louise back to the podcast for the 1000000th Time. 

ELP: I think it's the third, but I'll take, I'll take a million.

It's at least three. 

Jordan: It's at least three. At least. At least. Yeah, it's good. and it's gonna be more, it's gonna be more, we're we. We are going to start doing some more semi-regular conversations on the podcast because we talk essentially every day, and there's usually just some good, juicy, fun information in there that we're like, we just have to, we have to have these conversations, publicly.

ELP: Yeah, I think it's great because as you know, both being generators as well, that response aspect, I don't do solo episodes of the podcast anymore because I love having a conversation. I love having something to respond to, and that's what I think brings out, you know, the best value. Rather, it can feel a little bit flat if I'm just talking as a solo or I don't get, I know you're quite as animated, quite animated when I'm having a conversation, so yeah.

I'm excited to bring our voice notes to the public domain. 

Jordan: Yeah, I love it. And you know, I feel the exact same way and I maybe am sometimes a little harsh on myself, but I feel like a lot of times my solo episodes, the way you described it, is a nice way, I feel like they don't land as well because like a lot of the nuance and a lot of the value that I feel like my clients get from me.

Is through that response. And, and when it's lacking, it's like, it just doesn't, it doesn't land. Right. I feel like I'm talking at people, which I like am right. Like I am. I'm talking at people. Yes, you are. I don't have any, like, there's nothing to soften it a little bit. so yeah. I think this'll be, this will be good.

I'm excited. Cool. So today we're gonna talk about. We're gonna probably talk about a lot of different things, but what we're gonna start talking about, and then we're gonna, we're gonna start responding to each other and we're gonna see where things go. We're gonna start with this, this idea, this concept, this question , of what type of support you need, because I feel like in the online space, There are so many different types of support that people can tap into.

A lot of times things get lumped kind of together that really shouldn't be, and we're not always aware of exactly what we're getting. I feel like when, or, or, or even what other people's expertise is when we're looking at getting support from them. And so what we do is very different, which I think is interesting and.

We'll also mention a thing that we're gonna be doing together, coming up here soon in London, cuz I'm gonna come see you. But I wanna talk generally about this idea of different types of support and then I'll just let you respond to that. Where do we wanna start? Okay. Where do we wanna 

ELP: start? I, I'm sit somewhere in the middle with this because I'm a certified coach, but I'm also a business consultant, so, It's that very kind of trite, oh, get, do the mindset and the strategy.

But you know, you do need the mindset and the strategy and I can, I do definitely bring both to my clients, but what I see a lot is clients come and they'll say, oh, I don't need the mindset. Just give me the strategy. Or other people that are like, oh, I need help in my mindset. I've got all these blocks.

But my strategy's solid and you know, never Has it ever been the case that that has been completely true because it's so intertwined and you know, you and I have talked about this because you. You know, you can see when there's mindset stuff that needs to happen, right? But you are not a mindset coach, so you can totally see when someone can't implement on their strategy because there's something there with mindset.

But quite often ourselves, we don't always know the right thing that we need. We might just see a coach talking about the results they've got or the results their clients have got and be like, oh, great. That's the result that I want. I'll go and work with that person. But then if what you actually need to do is learn how to set up a funnel and you don't know how to market properly, and that person's saying, oh, just meditate for 30 minutes a day and like, lean into my energy, I'm not gonna give 

Jordan: you the result that you want.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I do, I see this a lot and I remember pretty early days I set kind of like a, an internal rule for myself because I, I'm. I'm pretty particular with the clients that I take on because we have like really limited capacity and what we do is like a re it's a, it's a huge lift and it's a big investment for people and it's meant to be ongoing.

And so we are very particular and, and we've gotten more particular over time. And, and one thing that I specifically look for is people's mindset, and, and their ability to. Their ability and like evidence of what they've already done. So like when people come to me and things haven't been working, sometimes that can be like a red flag, or if they haven't been taking a lot of action, I love working with people who are like, look, I've been doing all of this and I've had success and I've done this, and now I want to go to that next level.

That's usually the sweet spot for me because it demonstrates that. Their mindset isn't the biggest problem. They have the ability to take action. And because I can't help people with mindset, like I really can't, some of my clients may disagree, but public facing, I tell people like, I, I can't help you with that.

because what I, what I am gonna do, I is tell you what to do because I know what's gonna work. But if your mindset isn't there to actually implement, Then we can't be effective as a team. You know? Like it just won't go anywhere. So I have like a really hard line on if your mindset's not there, like this isn't a good idea.

ELP: And I think that sometimes when we are in it, and if we're in that position where we like. Shit, I really need this to work. Like I really want this to work. Mm-hmm. It can be, it can be difficult to to know, and for me, I would say to clients like, check in with yourself and check that you're not being swayed by someone else's, very shiny marketing or someone else's results.

When you don't know what's gone on in the background, it's like, I'm gonna say these like, Insta coach influencer type accounts. You know, they've got mass massive followings and they teach people how to do Instagram because somehow they've kind of cracked the code on doing Instagram, and of course they're selling that by saying, Hey, I do Instagram and I make like 90 K a month, or whatever.

So people go, oh great. If I can just learn to do Instagram from that person, then. I'm gonna replicate those results, but there's no way that person is not also working on their mindset and their energy and their beliefs and all of that other stuff in the background. So yeah, they're se but they're not selling that.

Cause that's not what they do. What they sell in is like, have this Instagram strategy or whatever, go viral, beat the algorithm. So I think it's important that when we see people, same way when we see people that are in the very spiritual space or selling, you know, mindset coaching or confidence coaching or something, they also have a strategy.

If they're, if they're, if they are super successful at what they do, they also have the strategy behind it. So just because we're drawn to someone because of their results, we've gotta know that what they, what they sell isn't the only thing that they do. 

Jordan: Yes. Yes. Okay, man, I have so much, so much I'm gonna try to remember to say here.

the, the one thing, that I wanna put a pin in, cuz I don't wanna go there yet, is, Around some of the marketing language, and you and I get, we get frustrated and we, we riff on the things that we see in the online space that make us very frustrated. and I just did a post recently about this that a lot of people resonated with because, because it's true.

Like there are some weird, icky, unethical things going on in the online space. And we can get into that. And we can get into why, but one thing that came up when you were saying that was, I swear, I have seen people say this exact thing. At the very least, they're insinuating it. but I feel like I've seen people even like outwardly say, like, oh, well if you're not willing to invest this money in me, then people aren't going to invest, you know, in you, at your prices, or you're not gonna be able to ever charge like, Ew, gross.

Like, no, don't. Don't tell me that I have to invest a certain amount of money in order to then unlock people paying me. Like it's some kind of, I don't know. I, I despise that. Do you wanna respond to that before I say my other thing? 

ELP: I do. I, what has happened with that is there are energetics. Absolutely.

And there is. You know, universal law and all of these things without going too deep into it, that mean that quite often when people invest in themselves, that money does come back to them. They get an ROI on it, but it's not that simple. This is a little bit more nuance, there's more complexity, and there's a lot of stuff with, you know, self-worth and belief and all of that to come into it.

However, the way. That kind of more woo aspect of it is being turned around in marketing is as you say, oh, if you don't, if you spend this money with me, I'll give you the secret and then you can unlock it and other, and then people will invest money in you. But that's, that's not what it is. So people are invest in, in that type of program from a place of fear or lack or scarcity, which there's no judgment on.

Cause we all go through periods of fear or lack of scarcity because we're human. But they're investing in these things because it's been marketed as, when you spend money, it will automatically come back and if you do not spend money, you will not be able to make money, neither of which are true. There's, you know, there's so much more nuance to it than that, and everyone's situation is different, but it's been sold as if you give me the money.

I will show you how to get other people to give you the money. And then we're in this like weird Pyramid M MLM type thing. Yeah. Where it's not about the energetics and it, it's not about, you know, growing ourselves and our personal development, but it's just about like, I'll give you the secret, which is Yeah.

Just rubbish. 

Jordan: Yeah. I mean it's, it's, I think it's purely a sales tactic that, like you said, kind of, it kind of preys on people's humanity. Mm-hmm. You know, and it, it almost like weaponizes this, woo side of things, this energetic side of things and seeds this self-doubt that is, it's not like, oh, like if you like, cuz the way you said it, I totally agree with, because I'm, I'm very much on board with all of this energetic stuff, all of this woo woo stuff like, I, I am.

but it has to be from the right place. And when you turn it around and make it kind of this like threat of, well, if you don't spend this money, you're not gonna be able to do X, Y, Z. Yeah. That's, no, that's not okay. Like you can't do that. Um mm. And there are so many other things there. There are so many, lots of black box that I guess we could open if we wanted to.

ELP: I, I will tell you that I got shamed for that on a sales call. In my early days in business, a, a coach shamed me because they said I wanted to go and think about it, and. And she was very good cuz she knew all of my pain points, even though I probably didn't at that point. Cause we're talking about four or five years ago, about, well if you can't make this decision, how are you gonna do anything?

And you know, why do you need time to think about it, don't you? You should know. And. You know, pure manipulation. I thought you're is what that is. Action taker. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I'm an action taker. I don't want this person to think I'm not an action taker. Like I don't want this stranger on the internet to think bad things about me.

Like our brains are crazy. Right? But, but yet that, I'm actually grateful for that experience because, well, for a number of reasons, but I think that we learn from everything that happens. And the one is that it showed me how I. Want to do sales and Yeah. Do I leave money on the table? Yeah, absolutely.

Because I don't use Scar to or fomo my marketing. I don't, I don't run sales conversations in that way. but do I work with highly aligned clients that use their own authority, decide to decide if they wanna be there? Yeah, absolutely. 

Jordan: Yeah. Mm mm We talk about this a lot. Mm-hmm. And I told you, I just like ranted about handling objections on a solo episode, which would've I'm sure landed a lot better had we had just had that as a conversation.

But, yeah, it's, there's just so much manipulation out there and I'm like, I feel like if you've had experiences like that, you're hyper aware of it. But not everyone is hyper aware of that. A lot of people haven't experienced that. And then, you know, There is a lot of, there's a lot of authority and credibility around some of these people that when, then when we get into this situation where they're very clearly manipulating us, it's, it's almost kind of hard to tell that it's going on, you know?

Or you don't wanna like believe that that would be happening to you. Like someone would be doing that to you who was like a like, Supposedly credible person, but it's, I mean, I, I just feel like it's rampant and, and that's why we see a lot of people. I, I don't know if I know anyone who hasn't been burned in this space in some way.

I, 

ELP: no, I don't think so. Now I think almost everyone that I've spoken to has had a, a bad experience or, you know, and for some people it was just maybe a, a cheaper program of digital product or something like that. So it's not. As damaging. But look, we're humans and we've got feelings and emotions and all of that good stuff, and when you're building a business, you are.

You know, you're in quite a vulnerable place because you're very driven and you want things and you want things to happen quickly. And if someone's telling you, Hey, I've got the thing that can make this happen for you quickly, you just need to give me your credit card. That can be very enticing. And if you add things into the mix, like this call I had, where it's like trying to get you to decide on the call or.

You know, people are using a lot of scarcity and you know, oh, join this round, the price is going up and all of that kind of thing, which may be true, but we activate people's nervous systems and then people are not buying from an empowered place and making the right decision. They're buying from their fears.

Their fears have literally been heightened and they're like, oh, I better get in now. And it, it, you know, it's just a perfect storm for, for things going wrong for everyone involved. 

Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And. This is the other thing I was gonna dive into, which I know that we've talked a lot about is in, in this, I, I totally get it and I've been struggling with this lately and really thinking on it.

this marketing that. That places the focus on there being one thing. Like there's like, this is the thing, you know? And it's everywhere. Everywhere. Everyone is selling the thing. And it makes me so frustrated because we see, you and I both see with our clients behind the scenes and even with our own businesses, there is no one thing, there is literally never one thing that is going to.

Significantly change your business there. There, there may be something in the moment that changes your business, but then there's gonna be something else. That's why almost never does someone just need strategy I in some realm, or just need mindset. Like you have to have both and you have to have it.

Around a lot of different topics all the time, and your business is gonna keep changing your business. Like my business looks totally different than it did six months ago or 12 months ago, or when I like it, it's always changing, and so I get frustrated because the truth is that. That one thing frame that, that problem framing and, and then pairing it with this is the one solution that you need.

That is what sells. It sells every time. It sells better than holistic programming every single time. And it's frustrating as someone who sees that it's not actually the thing that helps. And I see people spending money on this stuff, and I'm like, and I even do it. I spend money on this stuff. And then I'm like, why did I do that?

That was so stupid. I know that, that thought. But that's not the case. Man, it's just, it bothers me. You've heard me rant, I've ranted to you about this already. 

ELP: You have, and it, you know, both of my signature programs, the Academy and the Quiet Power Mastermind are holistic programs and it, it can make the marketing more difficult because you are not hypertargeted and you're not going all in on one thing, which is very captivating for people.

I'm very easy for the brain to understand, right? If I was selling a course about, How to make reels that sell or something. And I've got an entire sales page about reels and results and all this kind of thing, and people will be like, yeah, oh my God. Like it's really easy to get sucked into it. But when you're selling a more holistic program, and I'm like, okay, well you get, it's a mastermind, so you get the support of the people around you.

You get coached by me, you get access to these programs. We, we talk about this, we look at your energy. I've got a messaging person, I've got a human design person. Like for the right person, they get it and they go, oh yeah, okay. This is, this is what I need. But, but a lot of people are like, oh yeah, that's nice.

And then they see something that's hyper, hyper targeted and go, wow. Because it's just easier to, it's easier to talk about one thing and make it sound compelling. And that's just the way it 

Jordan: is. Yeah. Yeah. It It drives me crazy. I read, and I think you've read this two a hundred million dollar offers.

yeah. Oh my gosh. 

ELP: I read that a long time, probably about 18 months ago. Yeah. Before he was quite as, as big as he is now in the online 

Jordan: space. Yeah. Yeah. There's, and I sh I should have like, I should actually pull the quote, but, He's got a quote in there that I think about every time I think about this topic, because I do get frustrated and I feel like people get frustrated all the time when they see people buying things that they're like, no, like, don't, like, don't do that.

why, why are you doing No, but, because I, I get frustrated about this like quite often. Partly because people, people come to me on a regular basis and are like, ah, I just did this thing and it didn't work. And, and I've had clients too who have. Even clients who are continuing to work with me or clients who have left and then come back, be like, yeah, I did that and you probably would've told me not to do it, but I did it anyway, and then it was a waste, and now here I am, and now I have less money to invest back.

You know? And, and so I get frustrated, but I, I remember this quote in this book that he's like, something about, you know, Human nature is human nature, and you need to not try to fight that in your marketing. Like you can sit there and be frustrated with it, but that's not gonna actually help you build your business.

Like people are still gonna be doing it. So you need to figure out how you can market your stuff. Especially like for people like us, and there are so many people who are doing. Genuine, ethical, helpful things in this space. So, so many, so many. And I just feel like often we're the ones who are not, like you just said, you're not using that, you're not using scarcity, you're not using urgency.

And so like you're leaving money on the table. And that makes me frustrated too because I'm like, damn, these are the people who need to be out there selling and like, and helping people. But we're often the ones who are doing less of the selling.

I don't wanna bum everybody out, but it just makes me so 

ELP: sad. I remember our voice notes about that quote because I remember you were like, oh, I'm thinking about this program, and like, what do you think of this positioning? And you sent me this like 10 minute voice note with the positioning and I was like, Okay.

I think I started with right, I love you. But because, because it was that, it was like, you're like, but it's everything. It's got this whole holistic approach. It's not just one thing. And I'm like, that sounds like a fantastic program, but for a marketing messaging, it's not strong and that it's sad. It's a sad.

Fact, but it probably, if you messaged it in that way, it probably would not sell as well as it, as it should or as other things. Yeah. And I don't know, maybe there'll be a shift. There's a lot of shifts going on in the online space, and I think we got into this hyper, like I say, hyper niche targeted thing in lockdown when people were able to invent.

Businesses online, out of thin air because everyone will sat online all day every day. Maybe that will shift. You know, people have definitely seen the light about a lot of things, like, about people lying about their revenue and people, you know, inflating client results and all that. Maybe it will shift and people will be like, oh, that magic bullet that it was looking for for the last.

Three years, it actually doesn't exist. So I do need some, I need a, whether that's a coach or a consultant, or a program or whatever, that supports me to grow my business as a whole. Like, let's hope that people just see that or work with multiple people, which I know you have done. You have, you know, worked with strategy.

People, and obviously with Julia at the same time. And, and I have, I've worked with coaches for strategy and then coaches for either mindset or energy because I, I understand that I need the support in all areas. Maybe not all the time, but certainly at different times of growth. Growth 

Jordan: in business. Yeah.

Yeah. And, spoiler alert, I am still, creating that program and we're just gonna try to figure out how to hack the positioning because I will die on this hill. I, it is, it is a fact that there is no one thing and you do need it all. And so I feel compelled to figure out how to position this because I know it's what people need and I refuse to give people.

Something that I know is not gonna be what they need. Like, you're gonna get the thing that you need. I just need to figure out how to position in a way that you see that, and that it can compete with the other things that are marketed in such a sexy way that are actually not what you need. So it's coming and you're gonna be in that program.

because, because it is gonna be holistic. So there will be mindset there, there will be all of this because. We need it all. We need it all. We need it all, all the time. or at least we need access to all of it all the time because things can change so quickly in our businesses. I've seen that. I know you've seen that, that sometimes, and like I said earlier, there's something that, that you kind of like crack the code on and you see growth in your business.

But if you're not, if you're not thinking about your growth from a holistic perspective, And even if you are, you're gonna run into problems. You're gonna run into problems. And I don't mean mean to be like negative about it, it's just part of the, the growth phase of any business that as you grow, you unlock.

New problems, that you didn't even know existed before. And you have to be prepared to deal with those at every single inflection point in your business. Or you will, you will con, you will constantly be in a boom and bust cycle. You will. and, and so having access to all of it is, is what people need.

It's just, I won't be, I won't be dissuaded on that. 

ELP: It's a great, and it's a great program. I'm gonna say I, I was not in any way questioning Jordan's program in that voice note. It was more like, I just want people to buy it and get it. And look, I think one of the really, one of the really sexy messages that's been out there.

For a long time. I dunno if it's died down a bit now, but it's like the quantum leap, how to quantum leap in your business and that, you know, that's been a thing and it is totally a thing. But what I've seen happen is when I've had clients that have quantum let. It's because they've had that beautiful like marriage of the strategy and the mindset, and they've been doing both of them.

They've hit the sweet spot. They've found what works for them. They've found what works for their people. They've maybe leaned into the mindset and the energy a bit heavier than they have done before. And then they've had like a massive up level and they're like, whoa, what was that? And I said, everything's aligned now.

Everything is. And yeah, I know that aligns a really over overused word as well, but for them, they've, they're on the right track. Like you say, they've found the thing that works for them, for their audience, for their growth, for their energy, whatever. And that propels them very quickly to a new level. But then of course, if they want to continue growth, there's more to do.

There's always more to learn. There's always more to, to lean into. But the. I think that marketing message of the quantum leap being like, oh, just trust or just believe and it will happen, you know? Yeah. There is an aspect of that and I, I do say things like that to my clients like regularly, but also it's when the strategy and the mindset and the energy and everything has come together and it's just gone.

Yeah. This is the right mix of things at the right time. Mm-hmm. 

Jordan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I totally agree and can pinpoint. Very specific instances in my business where I've gone through the, the quantum, the quantum leap. I, I love the, the way that, that like the, the visual that that gives of what it's like because it does feel like that in the moment.

It's like, holy shit, my business just changed like almost overnight is what it feels like. but it's almost always rooted in. Long-term work. Yeah, long-term work, long-term experience and expertise and trying and changing and adapting and pivoting, and then something will click. but it, yeah, I'm not gonna harp on it too much, but it, it does require continuing to.

To work on all of the things. and what I think is really interesting and why I think mindset in particular and everything that, that in, in my mind goes into that bucket. It's so, so important is. Because for someone like me who's very, like, I'm very action oriented. I'm very strategy focused. I will take, I, I will just like, try things every day, all day.

But if, if, like it's my mindset that I need to have constant support around, because I can do everything else myself. You know, like f for the most part, I can do everything else myself, but I can't do the mindset stuff myself. I, I have to have support on that. and like the, there was a mastermind I.

Participated in a couple of years ago, right when I started this business and I had the decade of experience and I had the ideas and I had the strategy, and I had all the things, and I got a mindset unlocked in that program that I was like, whoa, that's possible. And my business just like exploded within about 60 days.

It was insane. But you can't do that stuff yourself. Like you just, you, you can't, I mean, I don't know. You're the expert. Do you think you can do the mindset stuff yourself? 

ELP: I, I think it's very, I. Personal to each, you know, each individual, but I think there are stages that you can do it yourself if you understand it, if you've got a good sound knowledge of it, if you've been practicing it, if it's something that you can do consistently, I would say the most important thing.

Is what you would be fueling your brain with and how expanded you are. Are you surrounded with people that you, you know, look up to you, you think, great, they're doing a, you know, they're having this element of success and I wanna have that too. And that's possible for me. Are you reading the right kind of books, listening to the right kind of podcasts?

Are you taking care of yourself? Are you journaling daily? Are you going for a walk? Are you, you know, letting your emotions out and getting angry when you feel like it all, you know, there's just so much to it. Are you, If you're into human design, are you leaning into your design and using all of these tools then?

Yeah, there are are. There are absolutely times that you can support yourself in that way, but are you gonna get the massive shift? Probably more likely when you are supported. Also depends on your business. What I see is a lot of what I'm gonna call space holders, so healers, therapists, consultants, online coaches, that if no one's holding the space for them, They don't have the, they're carrying so much around with them for the space they hold for other people.

Right. So not to get into the territory of like, oh, you have to have a coach. To be a coach. But it's just for your own bandwidth sometimes and for your own wellbeing. And just for your own, like clearing out the mindset gunk enables you to, to be so much better, not just in life and business, but for your 

Jordan: clients as well.

Yeah, for sure. I've even seen that on the flip side, like with, for myself. Since I live in the strategy with all of my clients, I've noticed within the last maybe even like six months, I've really needed to lean on people more to help me just like talk through my own strategy stuff, or I get in my head about it, and that didn't really used to be the case for me.

I could kind of, I don't, I don't know. I think it's because. I wasn't holding so much space in my brain for other people. And we have like, you know, over 20 clients. It's a lot of, it's a lot of people to hold at that level. Like this is our, our high ticket, high-touch clients. There's, there's a lot of them.

And it's, it's a lot. It's, it's a lot to hold space for, for sure. And so you kind of have to. It's interesting, like the more the the, the better you're doing, I feel like the more support support you need. yeah. It's, it's so interesting. and I agree with you. I, I, I'm not saying that there's not, I'm not saying there's not things you can't do yourself, but like for me, on the mindset side, part of the value.

That I've had working with Julia is her teaching me how to do this stuff myself and getting the practice, the, the like facilitated practice of doing these things that now I, I do, I do do it, you know, myself, but I still need her at times and I would never have been able to do it. Without having her, you know?

Yeah. And 

ELP: I think that's a great way of looking at it. There is nothing that makes me happier than when former clients will send me a message and be like, you'll be so proud of me. I, I did this big thing. You know, something that's maybe been a struggle for them when we're working together, I. And they say, I was like, what would Emma say?

Or I heard your voice say this thing. And I'm like, but that's the whole point. So, you know, another th i, I mean, this could be a whole other episode, but there's a lot of co-dependency that's created in the online coaching space because it's good for business if you can keep people co-dependent and keep them, you know, like ascending through your programs or, or whatever.

But ultimately, The, for me, coaching is about giving people the skills and the tools and the empowerment that they need to be able to go and do the thing that they wanna do. And yet some people choose to have continuous support while they're doing that, like you do with Julia. you know, a number of my clients have been with me for years now, and they choose that, but equally, People should be able to come and understand the process, get that self-awareness, get the tools, like you say, have it, have the space hold for them to understand ways of thinking that aren't serving them, and better ways of thinking that they can use in the future.

And they should be able to take that and run with it and, and build on that. 

Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. I love it. Well, this feels like a good time to segue into, What we're planning to do here in a few weeks. I 

ELP: know. It's so exciting. Should we tell people why you're coming to London first of 

Jordan: all? Yes.

Okay. No, for the record, I am coming to London for business purposes, and that is why my trip is tax deductible. but also, while, while I'm there, we're gonna have some fun, because you got tickets to Wimbledon and you know that I am obsessed with tennis. I've played tennis for many decades. I, I don't know.

I, I, I love it. I, if I could, I need to get back into it because honestly, like I could play tennis every single day. It's like in my bones. I am obsessed with it. So of course you know this, and when you got two tickets, you asked me to come with you. I'm so excited. I like cried. I cried. Did you? Yes, I did.

ELP: You said you, you messaged me. You were like, I'm tearing up. And I was like, is she actually tearing up? 

Jordan: Yes. No, that was real. Yeah. 

ELP: Okay. Yeah. So ied, I also loved, also loved tennis, loved tennis. Since I was a kid, I used to play in the garden against the wall because it was just me. So to be like banging the wall every, the ball up against the wall, wait for it to come back.

And then, oh my gosh. I mean, I used to watch Wimbledon. We had a black and white tv. That's how long I've been watching Wimbledon and that's how old I am. But I have entered the ba, I entered the ballot for years and years and years and years to try and get tickets and nothing. And then in about the last five years I've had some trickle through.

So I was like, Ooh. So I hadn't, obviously with blocked down and everything. It wasn't on for that first year. And then I didn't get anything last year. And then it came through this year and I was like, Ooh, who am I gonna, who am I gonna take? I you were, I was sorry. I'm just gonna ask you, fully expecting you to be like, no, that's like on another continent and I've got two small kids and whatever.

But I think we talk, I think you were still playing tennis at that time. We, we'd been talking about Andre S's autobiography, which so good. If anyone hasn't read that book, read it whether you like tennis or not, because it's amazing. and then I was like, do you wanna, do you wanna come to Wimbledon? And you were just like, What lady Semifinals as well?

Jordan: Yes, it's It's gonna be the highlight of my year. Sorry to like all of my, my kids and my family. I love you all. But this is, this is, this is peak. 

ELP: So you get a thing, you get to combine doing business in London. Yes. With watching tennis in London. 

Jordan: Yes. It's gonna be amazing. So, about the business part? Mm.

We're gonna be doing some, some v i p days because, fun fact for everyone. We've, we've known each other a while, but we've never met in person. And we're gonna meet in person, and we are going to do an in-person v i p day, which I have not. I've done, I've done virtual v i p days, but I have not done any in-person.

Events period in this business I have in other businesses. and I have done other v i p days in other businesses, but not, not in this business. And so this is gonna be the first time for me to get to, have that in-person experience with you and a client to go through this stuff that we do virtually all the time.

And there is like nothing, there is nothing comparable to doing this stuff in person, in my opinion. I love, it's a totally different 

ELP: thing. I love it. So I did so much in person before the pandemic. That's the reason I brought the business online really was because I, you know, had to, and I've done, oh, I did a group v i p day a few weeks ago.

I've done a couple of private client vi i p days in the last year and I loved doing in person. Yeah, I 

Jordan: do it. Yeah, it's great. So we're gonna, we're gonna bring our two different. Minds together, me on the heavy strategy and operations and you on all things, people and mindset and energy. And it's gonna be magical.

It is. It is. I'm 

ELP: excited. And in London, in London, 

Jordan: in London, it's gonna be great. So, Yeah, we won't go through all the, the specs and all of the things, but just know it's gonna be, it's gonna be good. It's gonna include some after v i p day support. It's going to include some implementation by my team, which is always a fun thing for us to get to do, cuz we don't do that.

we don't do that outside of our, you know, ongoing retainer clients. So that'll be a cool thing to offer to someone. And, Yeah, we'll, we'll put the Dets in the, in the show notes. We'll be sending out emails and talking about it over the next few weeks. It's gonna be mid-July, so snag a spot with us. I think we'll have like, what, two spots?

ELP: Yeah. Yeah. Probably two. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Amazing. 

Jordan: It's gonna be great. I know. Who else, what else should we leave people with? 

ELP: Hmm. What else should we leave people with

that? You saying about people actually, and the fact that we decided to do this because we just have like a constant conversation going on Voice notes is, I would say just remind people to lean into that to make sure you've got the right support. Like yes, we've talked about having a coach, having a consultant or whatever the thing is that you need there, but.

The more, the longer I do business, the more important I see that the connections are, and not in like a slimy networking way of like, oh, let me get my Rolodex out and check all my connections, but having actual connections like this, because how many times have you, you know, come to WhatsApp and sent me a voice note and I've responded and you're like, yes, I feel so much better now.

That makes so much sense and. You know, we are really lucky cuz we have that and we have, you know, this podcast that we also got the space to have that conversation. But it can feel super isolating. Especially, you know, my, my introverted audience can be like, oh, I just said I'm doing business. But, but remember that, have conversations with people, talk about things.

Be vulnerable to tell, tell your friends what's annoying. You tell them what's going well for you. Like this is how we all learn and grow and support each other, is just having this kind of ongoing dialogue. 

Jordan: Yeah, and I, I do think that, it, it can be tough in real life because, Still, I mean, I think it, it's way more common and people get it more now, but there're for a while and even still sometimes it's, it's hard to explain to people in real life like what it's like to work fully remotely.

And for all of my, like, for all of my clients to be totally virtual and all of my team is totally virtual and I haven't met most of the people I talk to on a daily basis in real life. I, I ha Which is strange, you know? And, and, A lot of times our real life friends like, don't get it. And, and like our fam, like my family, you know, they don't get it.

I don't talk to them about my business for the most part. so it is so important and. I just told, I had a call this week in our membership and we were talking about marketing and visibility and collaboration and all kinds of cool things, and I actually told our origin story because I was like, the internet is so cool and, and you have to be.

Fairly proactive to be building your network, which is what you're talking about. Like there's, there's many, there's many layers to a person's network. but I'm talking about like inner circle network. Yeah. Like the people that I talk to regularly, you know, and you just never know how that's gonna. Come about like, I invited you to Clubhouse after I was, I know.

What's the 

ELP: funniest 

Jordan: thing? It's so 

weird. 

ELP: It's like weird. She randomly invited me to Clubhouse. She like, Hey, I've got an invite for Clubhouse. Do you wanna join? I was like, yeah, sure. 

Jordan: Well, and talk about like the value of visibility. The reason I did that is because you were very active in Facebook groups and so I was seeing you all the time like in reading your posts and I was like, man, Emma, Louise just seems so cool.

Like, I wanna be her f. Friend, I'm gonna really put myself out there and I'm gonna invite her to Clubhouse, which is totally random cuz I've never spoken to her ever, but I'm gonna do it. And then it has evolved in like many very cool ways. And here we are getting ready to go to Wimbledon. Like what? 

ELP: I mean, you could, you could never have known that thread, could you?

But it's true, because then you reached out, you'd listened to the podcast a few months after that and you were like, thank you for this episode. It was great. And then I was like, oh, let's have a virtual coffee. And then, you know, it just went from there. You've been on the podcast, you've. You know, I've been your client, we've been friends and we still are friends.

But I had, I had a similar thing. I've got a friend, I always say, I've got a friend on Instagram, who I just randomly con saw on someone's stories and got a great energy and I was like, oh, I wanna be friends with that person. So I just like followed them and I started responding to their stories and stuff.

Not in like a creepy stalk way, but, and now, now we are friends. Yeah. And that can just happen sometimes you just gotta trust that you're like, I like 

Jordan: this person. Yeah, it's, it's really cool, like, you know, to, I, I think it's a good way to end, to balance out, like the shit talking that I, at least I do on a regular basis about the online space.

there is this element of it that is just like unbelievably cool and powerful. It's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. Yeah. I, I, I love it. And, and that's why as a whole, So much more positive than negative, right? Yeah. Like I'm gonna call out the negative, like I'm gonna rant about it cuz I really do think that there's opportunity for it to change.

And I think you're right that a lot of stuff is shifting. but so much positive, so many cool things to focus on. So anyway, get out there. Get out there. Go network, build your network, talk to people. Super important. Love it. Come see us in person. It'll be great. Yes, I 

ELP: can't 

Jordan: wait.