Easy Scaling with Jordan Schanda King

Firing Clients | Navigating people pleasing with Shannon McKinstrie

April 18, 2023 Jordan Schanda King Episode 49
Easy Scaling with Jordan Schanda King
Firing Clients | Navigating people pleasing with Shannon McKinstrie
Show Notes Transcript

For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode49 

This episode is part of our mini-series all about firing clients. Tune in as we get real and raw about parting ways with clients, why it happens, how to avoid it, and what you can do to make it easier when it does happen (because it will). 

In this episode, we’re talking with Shannon McKinstrie, founder of Boutique Social, is a social media strategist for business owners who want to make an impact and get big results through organic + proven social media strategies. She’s also a wife, mom, Target junkie, oat milk latte fanatic, cheap wine connoisseur and co-founder of The Social Squad Society.

Topics discussed:

  • How to set realistic expectations for success
  • Hacking your process to avoid people pleasing tendencies
  • Being particular and staying in your lane
  • What happens when red flags are ignored
  • Knowing your value and not giving discounts
  • Resetting expectations when things aren’t going perfectly
  • Understanding and respecting your capacity as a service provider

Connect with Jordan Schanda King:

Connect with this week’s guest:

Love what you heard? Reviews really help us out! As a thank you, you can get my 90-Day Planning Formula ($97 Value) by submitting a screenshot of your 5-star review at easyscaling.com/podcastreview

Parting ways with clients  | with Shannon McKinstrie

Jordan: Hey, hey. Welcome to our mini-series, all about parting ways with clients, a k a firing clients, whatever you wanna call it. You know, it's all the same things happen, things happen with clients, and so we wanna talk about that in this series. We wanna talk about what happens when you need to fire a client.

What are some situations that you might be in? It's a good idea to part ways with a client. What are some red flags to look out for before you even bring a client on that could potentially say that this is not a good idea and other things that just make this process easier. What to do after it's happened, and then again, how to avoid it.

So I really hope you enjoy this series and thank you to all of my guests for joining me and being so open and honest. And,

All righty. In this episode, we are chatting with Shannon McKinstry. She is the founder of Boutique Social and she's a social media strategist for business owners who want to make an impact and get big results through organic and proven social media strategies. She's also a mom, a target junkie. like me, cheap wine connoisseur.

I mean, this is the greatest bio ever. I love this. Okay, Shannon is fantastic and we talk all thanks. Firing clients, especially from her perspective as a service provider and a social media manager. So we talk about red flags. we talk about the importance of communication. We talk about how she has come up with ways to make, really to.

People pleasing tendencies to make this whole process of not taking on the wrong clients and then also firing the clients that aren't a good fit. How to make that whole thing easier for her. And I think that you'll get a ton of value from this. So I hope you enjoy this conversation. 

Welcome. Welcome everyone, and welcome Shannon to the podcast. 

Shannon: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat it up. . 

Jordan: Yes, this is gonna be fun. And I say that every time because it always is fun. And we're gonna talk about firing clients. Mm-hmm. a k a parting ways with clients cuz there's lots of different scenarios and situations that people can get into, for this to come up.

So maybe we just dive right in and have you tell us about a situation where you had to fire a. 

Shannon: Sure. and because I've had to do this several times, I really love helping other people do it too because, you know, I'm a social media, well, I have a few arms of my business, but I've really only had to fire clients inside the social media management side of my business because I think a lot of people don't understand how it works.

And, this was this. Is why I now have, very different procedures in place for gathering clients. but yeah, I had a client who I was really excited to work with cause I love food, right? And they were a caterer and I was like, this is gonna be so much fun to come up with. Fun captions for them. Fun ideas.

This was before reels even. So it was just captions at the time. And, I was so excited and, you know, had them put together photos for me. I wrote all this content for. . I was also charging insanely low at the time. And when I say the emails, I would get back about the content I would submit to them before scheduling were like longer than essays that we wrote in college.

I mean, I'm telling you. And I would break out in like pure, like hives stress. Oh my gosh. Tears. And I was like, I. First of all, I've got a baby at home. I'm trying to juggle this business. I'm trying to grow it, and they're questioning why this hashtag, why this time? Why'd you word it this way? I mean everything.

Why would you post it this time of day? Who cares about that at this time of day? Who? And I'm like, oh dear. Goodness. So again, like there's a big difference between being a social media strategist and a social media manager. I consider myself both of. , but a lot of social media managers aren't part of the strategy, right?

So I came, I came up with everything for them, and I was so excited, and I know it would've killed, and immediately within two weeks, I, I'd let 'em go because I had dealt with so many other clients that I regret not firing sooner. That ended up firing me. So this time I was like, no, we're done here. And it really came down to.

Not communicating what I probably would I do enough. But I also think some people are just micromanagers. Mm-hmm. . And no matter what you do, you might see the red flags. But I think as business owners we just wanna help everybody. And I'm like, oh, your Instagram's not good. You guys are great at what you do.

I wanna help so much. And it just, every red flag was there. I ignored it and it became a nightmare. And I just remember feeling so down. Cause I felt like I was the blame. I was the reason it didn't succeed. And that was a. Learning lesson for me back then. 

Jordan: Hmm. I love that. And I love that you mentioned red flags specifically because whenever the topic of firing a client comes up, I always go to red flags because there's always something that was like, sometimes I call them pink flags and, and an accumulation of pink flags can become one big red flag to me.

Yes. But I think this is an important thing to talk about, and I'd love to dig into what your specific red flags are, even now that you look for. Mm. it, it's not, at least what I find. It's not usually something that totally happens out of the blue. It's not like, oh my gosh, this person is like totally different than I thought they were.

It's like, oh, that little thing actually turned into a big thing and no, this is not gonna work. So talk to me about that. 

Shannon: And honestly, I, I think the biggest one, which I, I hate saying it, but was, you know, asking for a discount. Ooh, yeah. Yeah. And they did. And I was like, I really wanted to work with food cuz Right.

Mainly, I was only working with one niche at the time and I wanted to branch out and. yeah, they asked for a major discount because they were just starting out and I, you know, I wanna help, I wanna, you know, so I was like, okay, this'll be great. But then the ones that always ask for the discount are always the ones that cause the most problems.

And I don't, I hate saying that cuz there's definitely business owners who are just struggling and that I've definitely given discounts too, or never even raised my prices on because I love them so much. But be when, right off the bat I have to find myself trying to convince my worth. I shut down immediately.

Now I'm like, I, I don't have time to convince you why you need social media. I don't have the time or energy to prove myself to you. so that would, I mean, that was honestly really the only red flag in the beginning cuz they seemed like they were gonna be the best. They were, like, they had con they had photos for days and but yeah, they just got really micromanaging.

Really didn't trust me at all. Like, you know what I always tell my clients now it's even in my welcome packet now. . I basically congratulate them for hiring me because I'm like, congratulations, you made a really good choice. Every single thing I do is to optimize your reach, your visibility. I know some of it might, might not make make sense to you.

Here's a few things to know and I just lay it out there. I'm like, I won't. Sometimes I'll use, I lay out how I choose the hashtags. I lay out all of that cause I now know that's a great way to eliminate all. From the beginning now, but yeah, the biggest one was just asking for a discount. Yeah. And again, I wasn't making a lot of money as a small business owner either, so I felt for them.

But nowadays, if someone asks for a discount, it's just a hard no. Unless I've worked with them in the past, I know their brands and it'll be 

Jordan: easy. Yeah. And what I think is interesting about this is that. I feel like when someone asks you for a discount, especially right off the bat, like they're coming, they're coming to you to provide a service, and they see your prices and then they want a discount.

It's less about the money. It's not like actually anything to do with the money. Yep. That is a demonstration of them not actually valuing what you do. You know that that's all that that is, and so that's what's gonna show up in, in the relationship is they're not actually gonna value what you 

Shannon: do. Gosh, that is a huge truth bomb right there.

I love it. Yeah. 

Jordan: So anything else? Any other red flags that you look for specifically? 

Shannon: So now I look for lots of 'em and actually what I've done now, so back in the day, I would, they would literally fill out, not even fill out a form, they would just book a discovery call. Now I have an intake form that they fill out and they can't book the call until I approve it.

So I look through the intake form and lots of red flags, especially for social media managers is if we're like, what's your goal? And they're like a million followers in a month or. I need to post three times a day. Now that's fine if some people wanna do that, but that's not my packages. I have very, I have the packages I have in place cuz they're sustainable for me, they're good for my clients, et cetera.

So basically, if they're looking for stuff outside of my capacity, if they are, you know, I just send them to someone else and sometimes it's not even, maybe it's a red flag for me, but not a red flag for someone else. Right. Right. and if they don't have assets ready to go, if they don't have content, if they don't know their core values, That's on my intake form, I believe.

you know, what's your elevator pitch? Like if they don't have that, they don't know their elevator pitch, I'm like, that's in their questionnaire for sure too. then I'm like, this isn't gonna work because you haven't done the work to hire me yet. We gotta start backwards and I have packages for that too,

But I think oftentimes people think social media managers, we can just pull things out of thin air. . I mean, we can, because we're good at what we do, but, but it's not gonna do as well if we don't have anything from them. Yeah. So I look for everything on the intake form now, and I will not book, I will not send them the link to book a call until I've looked over it.

If we're not a good fit, I have a canned email that goes out saying, you know what? I think you'd be a better fit over here. I, I have a huge referral network of social media managers that we just send it out to everyone. We go, who wants this? And they take it from there. 

Jordan: That's awesome. That's awesome.

Gosh. Okay, so there's, there's so much good stuff in here that I wanna pick apart. One thing is just, I'm hearing a lot of like permission that you give yourself, and I see this a lot in conversations that I have with my clients because even with your, your process, your sales process, like you are actually taking.

I don't know how, this maybe isn't the best way to describe this, but you're taking control of that process and you're giving yourself permission to be particular, which I think is super, super important because that is how you find clients that are truly aligned with what you actually do. And, and you don't have to serve everyone.

And, and you've given your per yourself permission to be like, well, I don't have to serve everyone. And so if they don't, if they don't align with how I need it to be, for us to be effective. . It's not that you're being mean or rude or harsh or anything if you're turning someone down and saying like, this isn't a good fit.

it's just that you know that that's in the best interest of you and them. Like, it's really, truly a kindness and I, I just talked to a client recently about this because we're setting up a book, a call funnel for her, and, and she's letting people book immediately because I think this is, , there's lots of different ways to do a book.

Oh yeah. Book a call funnel, which is, you know, your way is different than what I'm about to describe, which is people book in, they, they immediately have access to book a call on the calendar, but they have to fill out an application with that and then you screen, you pre-screen them before you actually have the call.

And what, what I told her that she was like, oh really? I can do that? Is I was like, if you read the application and you know for sure they're not a good fit for. , you could cancel that call. Cancel. Yep. You have permission to cancel that call. She was like, oh, really? I don't know. I was like, yes, a hundred percent and you should cancel the call because otherwise it's a complete waste of your time to do it.

And I've had people cancel calls on me. I've like booked in. Oh, see, I've booked in. And then. Filled out the thing and got an email that was like, Hey, we, you know, we, we went ahead and canceled the call. This, this isn't gonna be a great fit and here's why. And it wasn't like mean, it was just like, we're actually not serving that type of business right now.

You would be better off if you went and found blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or I can connect you with someone and like, that's, it's not bad. It's not mean. It's just, it's, it's better for everyone, you know? It 

Shannon: is. And plus, I know if I get on the call with them, , I'll end up taking 'em on because I'm a people pleaser.

Mm-hmm. . So this is to make sure that I don't fall into it because I just can't help myself. So this has really been helpful. No, and I've had people cancel. I remember one time I actually signed up for a podcast one time, like way too, like, it was like months later I was like, oh my gosh, I forgot to sign up for that.

And I did. They were, were back there. Like, actually we don't need this subject right now, but in the future. And I was like, no offense taken. Like totally get it. No problem. . It's not mean. It's saving your time. It's saving their time. And, you know, we're not all a good fit for 

Jordan: everybody. Yeah. And I think that that type of, that type of consistent action is like critically important for how you show up in like every area of your business.

Because I've even heard people, I was just on a call earlier today and someone was talking about, oh, you know, I, I'm trying to fire this client and I just can't, they're, they're still here. I'm like, Well then you didn't actually fire them like you have to actually, like, it's not that it's, it's not easy to do these things, but you have to practice using that muscle of like actually doing the thing that you need to do.

Especially for people pleasers. Like people like, and that is very, very common in this space. 

Shannon: and I get it. I see. Yes. I told someone, I was like, I think all of us entrepreneurs are people pleasers. That's why we're in it, cuz we wanna. Everybody, but we can't. 

Jordan: We just can't. No, we can't. And it ends up like totally backfiring and getting us in bad situations like even, you know, the client where you're giving them a discount and then you're bending over backwards and it's a terrible experience for you.

I mean, imagine all of the energy and time and like excitement you would have for your business if you didn't have that client. I 

Shannon: know. I know. When I found myself in bed writing emails at one in the morning, I was just like, we're done here, . I. Sustain this. And it was also the guilt and the anxiety of having to say We can't do this.

And yeah, it was really powerful moment though. Once I let them go, it was like a weight off my shoulders. Oh yeah. But I also wanna say there's also been clients who in the past started off as red flags, , and we were actually able to reel them in and I think it's just cuz I got really bold and said, look, you hired us for a reason.

and they, we reminded them cause it was someone we really wanted. And they're like, you're right, you're right, you're right. And I was like, you've gotta trust us. And it was a come to Jesus moment. And honestly, they're one of our favorite clients. They've been with us for two years now. Wow. And every time we've raised our prices, they have a bat, an eye.

So some, but like things like that, like disrespecting your like. your boundaries if you have boundaries in place and they keep pushing 'em. But she always respected our boundaries as far as like only messaging in Slack, not doing this, but it was more about picking content apart. And as a social media manager, that kind of hurts your heart.

Mm-hmm. . And, you know, we told her, we're like, look, you know, you really just gotta trust us. We know what works. We know what doesn't work. That's not gonna work. Trust us. And, and now she's killing it, so. . There are times, but yeah. But once they cross that line again, that that's what it's, you've gotta the third, third time, you know, no three strikes.

It's like two strikes 

Jordan: for me. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I love this angle of, of the fact that someone can potentially be a red flag. Mm-hmm. client, but you can actually make it work. I don't feel like a lot of people talk about that. , but that all comes down to communication, right? It does. Like, like you said, it's, it's the boundaries.

You have to know what your boundaries are and you have to be able to effectively communicate them. 

Shannon: 2000%. Yes. So, and you know, it's, it's funny cuz I'm like, I remember being like again, like, she's outta here. I'm done. So , she's not listening. She might know. No, she probably won't even know who it is. , because we have so many clients in our management side.

But, you know, sometimes it's just, it's nerve-wracking. I would never hand my social media off to. . Mm-hmm. ever. So for people to trust us with theirs is really big responsibility. So like, I get it. I'm like, it's scary af I get it, but I'm like, you have to trust us. We're doing things for a reason, you know?

and there's so much noise, so much false noise out there. So then they're like, well, I heard this, I heard that. I'm like, do you trust us ? And that's always just what I say. I'm like, do you trust us? And I think that's good for really anyone in any, especially the. industry. It's like, you guys, you just gotta trust us.

You're hiring us for a reason. my husband's in real estate, same thing. You know, he's like, do you trust? Yeah, hold my hand, , 

Jordan: because ultimately that's what you're hiring someone for. If you're not gonna, if you're, if you, and, and this is funny because I'm kind of speaking from experience here in that I am, I'm sure a nightmare client for people because I'm like you.

I, I really can't trust people with a lot of my stuff. Like I am such a micromanager. I'm very particular, and I tell people that up front, like I don't hide that. I like when I get on calls with people to potentially hire them, I'm like, look, I'm, I'm particular and I'm gonna be very involved. I don't. , but I probably am gonna be gonna be like, I, I can't, I can't help it.

But what's, what's interesting is that I've actually decided that sometimes it doesn't make sense to hire people to help you mm-hmm. when you're in that space. Mm-hmm. . So like, I, I'm actually thinking of doing my own social media for a while, just because. I would rather be, I would rather not be paying someone and be inconsistent, but be putting out content that I'm like, yep, that's exactly what I wanna say and why I wanna say it.

And, and maybe I'm in a slightly unique situation in that I, I, I'm in this space, right? Mm-hmm. , so like, I, I quote, unquote know what I'm doing Yes. On social media, but there's a trade off, right? Like if you're going to pay someone, you need to trust them and hand it over. Yeah. And otherwise, like, why are you paying?

Shannon: Right. And I love that you said that too. And hopefully social media managers don't get upset that I say this, but I have told so many people with personal brands, like we don't work with personal brands at all. And it's because I, I feel like if you are a personal brand, having a social media manager does you a disservice.

Jordan: It's just hard for people to do it. It's 

Shannon: hard, like you need to learn it or unless you're really bad at social media. But as far as your stories like content, sure. But if you're a personal. , we, it, it's, it needs to be your voice. Like everyone we work with is a team, right? Mm-hmm. , it's like a team of realtors, a team of home builders.

It's a team. So there's. and 

Jordan: overall it's a company persona. You're not trying to sound like a specific person and pretend to be them a 

Shannon: thousand percent. And some of our realtors are solo agents, but like we know them. We know exactly like they'll laugh, they'll be like, I thought I wrote this. I'm like, good.

But we as realtors, that's a lot easier. It's real. Like it's just, I know again, if I pass mine off and someone wrote a caption, I would tear it apart. Yeah. And change it to my voice because no one can write. I know. I know. People will know. . Even my emails, someone was helping me with emails and I just went in and just made it me.

Cuz it's just, so, again, if you're a personal brand who wants to do like speaking and things like that, I really do believe, or at least have someone help you. But like the content has to come from maybe blogs you've written in the past or repurpose the stuff you've already created. So it's you. Mm-hmm.

Jordan: I love, I love that you said this because I don't feel like a lot of people are saying that, and it's very validating for me to hear because it's exactly what I'm feeling and. And I won't say that there's no value in having people help you with content because No. Even the people who were doing my social media, and I've had several people over the last like six or so months who've worked with me and they've all been fantastic.

Mm-hmm. . But again, it's just like, if I have to touch it at all, I, it's hard for me to see the value. Right. And, and that's not to say anything about their content, but at the same time, I also find a lot of value in people like getting things started for me because of like, yeah, my personality and my human design and all of these things and that.

this is partly why it doesn't work, is when they write something for me and I read it, it sparks me with like lots of ideas. Mm. And so then I go and I'm like, Ooh, actually, I would love to go this direction with it. You know what I mean? Which, and they're like, oh my gosh. I know. Which is like, it's a, it's a good and bad thing.

But, anyway, all of that to say that I'm a nightmare. So , what, what else can we talk about when it comes to firing clients? Do you have particular tips or strategy with the actual firing or parting. Yeah, 

Shannon: I think, and it's funny, I actually have an email template that I share with all the girls in my course cuz I'm like, look, I know they're the same as me.

We're people pleasers through and through. We're terrified. We're like, oh, we're such jerks. You're not a jerk. so I have an email template and cuz I physically, I know if I had to do it on Zoom or phone call, I'm not gonna do it. Mm-hmm. . But again, you come from a loving place and this is what I always do.

So, and this could work for a lot of people in different ways, in different, in. . But what I typically say is, I think you almost like what I just said. It's a disservice. and I tell a lot of people who hire someone like you, right? I'm like, what I would suggest to you is either obviously join like a membership like I have or other people have where you get the templates and then you can just plug and play.

So it sounds like you, or I say hire someone in. . Hmm. And that's always what I say. I go, honestly, I've absolutely, and you always tell 'em, it's been a pleasure. This has been amazing. I've loved supporting you. And I'd be like, but I honestly think, and I obviously say that it's like doing a disservice.

And I think you'd be best to hire someone in-house. And that's, that's a way that I have found myself comfortable firing. Cuz it's basically saying like, cuz most times we are hire, it's someone who is in the mix too much. And I'm like, well, if someone's sitting in the same office as. Way easier to create social content with them.

also a lot of people could never give us photos or videos and I'm like, you want me to just use stock photos? Ew. So . I mean, which are fine, but like there has to be a face in there every once in a while. Yeah. Like, I, no one knows what you look like. We gotta show. and if they're not selling a product, I'm like, we got nothing.

We just got a picture of a desk, which used to work. and again, no hates of stock. Stock photos like Cam, I use so many graphics tweets, but again, they're giving us nothing. Mm-hmm. . So I would have nothing to pull from. They don't even have blogs, they wouldn't have emails, they'd have nothing for us. And I'm like, what am I supposed to say?

So that's why I would just say, I think it's best that you hire someone in a house who's there. Physically be there with you regularly. So that's why I kind of hand it off rather than being like, you are a nightmare. Because , as much as you say, gets to go. Yes. As much as you wanna say that, you can't say that.

No. . So yeah, I usually just say, I think it's, you know, again, thanking them for the opportunity. Start it off there and go at after much consideration. I believe you'd be best off blank and say what they would be best off with. And I usually do end it with like, but if it's that bad of a nightmare, I'm like, no, you need someone in house.

I'm not even referring you . And they, they'll, they'll probably appreciate it and that's why I told the caterer, I was like, you need someone physically with you guys because I can't talk to you all day. 

Jordan: That's great. I think. I think that really softens the blow too, because we talked about this in this series.

We talked about the fact. , even , even if you're firing someone for the best reason possible, and they are like super kind and sweet, but you still have to fire 'em. Like it's still hard not to take that personally. It is, you know? So the fact that you're like, you are softening it as much as you possibly can and you're giving them a best next step, it, and it's again, it's in their best interest.

And so yeah. I'm sure that makes it easier to swallow. And the other thing that I noticed about a couple of things that you've said is you're almost like hacking. Your personality here a little bit. Like you have a template, you know that you're gonna send it via email. You're not gonna get on a call and talk to them about it.

you know that, for instance, you're, you're gonna decline the call or not give them the ability to even get on a call with you if you think that there's red flags and it's not a good fit. Like you, you know, the situations that you shouldn't put yourself in to like make it more difficult for you to do the thing that you know is best for you.

Mm-hmm. . So I think that that's really cool and something that people can think through and apply to their own approach to firing clients or. Saying no to clients before they even become a client that's not a good fit. Mm-hmm. , which is also just as important. Yep. But anything else that you think you wanna leave people with around parting ways?

Yeah, 

Shannon: I think there's a saying, I don't, I don't know who says it, it's not me. but something about, hire slow, fire fast. Mm-hmm. . And that's for like, hiring people on your team. But I also think it's the same with clients. It's like onboard them slow . Fire fast. And again, that's not the same. But like I said, unless you think you can really salvage it part ways immediately because you are, they're taking up space with dream clients that will probably pay you more, honor your time and you'll love your job again.

Yeah. Like if, if a client is making you hate your job, they have to go like, we did not start these businesses to be bogged down, to feel like we started these to get. from, you know, the grind and the having to pick up the phone at all hours of the day and check email when we don't want to. Like, we did this because we want freedom and flexibility.

We wanna work with people that we really love and we're all entrepreneurs, we're all just trying our best and we're all really care deeply about what we do. So ask the right questions from the jump so that way you don't have to have those tough conversations. But really, I onboard people pretty slowly.

Like if someone's like, I wanna work together tomorrow, I'm like, I would love that , but we can't. It's too much. I gotta get to know you. I gotta make sure this is the right decision for me, my team. and then, yeah, if it's that bad, just do it immediately and just say, you know what? You can also even say, I'm take my business actually in another direction for a few months.

That's another way to back out and be like, I've actually hit a wall. I have no social media managers who have done that. They're just like, actually, I don't even wanna offer the service anymore. I'm like, then, . Mm-hmm. don't. Yeah. And maybe that client came into your life for a reason, because you actually hate that service.

So that's a long tangent. But that's good. That's why I would leave you 

Jordan: with so, so good. I love that. Yay. And you know, I think that, I think that people sometimes feel obligated to take on all of these clients. I know that, I see people being like, well, I can't fire them because I don't have, like, I need more clients.

I can't fire a client than I have, you know? But, it. A massive energy drain. Mm-hmm. , it's a massive energy and time drain when you're having, when you're serving clients who are not a good fit for you. And, and on the permission piece too, like to take it ba all the way back to the beginning of the episode, you're, especially as a service provider, You don't need that many clients,

You don't need that many clients. And so you can be, you can be particular, you can be picky. You can say no, and you should be saying no. Mm-hmm. , because it's not, it's not like you need to be able to serve every single person that comes across your business. You need to just find literally like the five to 10 people who are a good fit for your service.

Yep. Like some people only have capacity for like five clients at high ticket. 

Shannon: and I will say most social media managers, I tell 'em, I'm like, well, you need to be charging over a thousand a month for sure. And cuz you're gonna, you're gonna burn out after five. Oh yeah, you 

Jordan: will. Yes. So it's too many people's businesses to keep straight your mind.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. At that 

Shannon: level. Yep. 

Jordan: Yep. Yeah. Too, too many like daily tasks. It's like so much churn, like, anyway. Yeah. Yep. super interesting. Super, super interesting. And that's again, why your prices have to be aligned with what you're. Doing. But yeah. Well, this was super fun. Yay. I loved it. I loved this chat.

Yes. Oh, this was great. Well, thank you so much for joining us. I know that people would get a ton of value from this. It 

Shannon: was great. Good. No, thank you for having me, Jordan.