For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode48
This episode is part of our mini-series all about firing clients. Tune in as we get real and raw about parting ways with clients, why it happens, how to avoid it, and what you can do to make it easier when it does happen (because it will).
In this episode, we’re talking with Kimberly Tara. Kimberly is a wife, mom to 4 little kids, and a multi-passionate entrepreneur. She is a CPA & Certified Tax Coach who started her tax practice 6 years ago. Kimberly focuses on profit & tax strategy for female small business owners. She also is the host of the Messy Wonderful podcast and blog which focuses on motherhood, money & business. She is passionate about educating female business owners as well as young children on all things tax, finance & entrepreneurship. Kimberly is all about finding the balance to live your best life and be successful at what matters most!
Topics discussed:
Connect with Jordan Schanda King:
Connect with this week’s guest:
Love what you heard? Reviews really help us out! As a thank you, you can get my 90-Day Planning Formula ($97 Value) by submitting a screenshot of your 5-star review at easyscaling.com/podcastreview
For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode48
This episode is part of our mini-series all about firing clients. Tune in as we get real and raw about parting ways with clients, why it happens, how to avoid it, and what you can do to make it easier when it does happen (because it will).
In this episode, we’re talking with Kimberly Tara. Kimberly is a wife, mom to 4 little kids, and a multi-passionate entrepreneur. She is a CPA & Certified Tax Coach who started her tax practice 6 years ago. Kimberly focuses on profit & tax strategy for female small business owners. She also is the host of the Messy Wonderful podcast and blog which focuses on motherhood, money & business. She is passionate about educating female business owners as well as young children on all things tax, finance & entrepreneurship. Kimberly is all about finding the balance to live your best life and be successful at what matters most!
Topics discussed:
Connect with Jordan Schanda King:
Connect with this week’s guest:
Love what you heard? Reviews really help us out! As a thank you, you can get my 90-Day Planning Formula ($97 Value) by submitting a screenshot of your 5-star review at easyscaling.com/podcastreview
Parting ways with clients with Kimberly Tara
Jordan: Hey, hey. Welcome to our mini-series, all about parting ways with clients, a k a firing clients, whatever you wanna call it. You know, it's all the same things happen, things happen with clients, and so we wanna talk about that in this series. We wanna talk about what happens when you need to fire a client.
What are some situations that you might be in? It's a good idea to part ways with a client. What are some red flags to look out for before you even bring a client on that could potentially say that this is not a good idea and other things that just make this process easier. What to do after it's happened, and then again, how to avoid it.
So I really hope you enjoy this series and thank you to all of my guests for joining me and being so open and honest. And, All righty. In this episode, we are chatting with Kimberly Tara. She's back on the podcast again. Kimberly is one of our amazing clients. She is a wife. She's a mom to four very little kids, which is amazing.
And she's also a CPA and a certified tax coach. She has a tax practice that she started six years ago where she focuses on profit and tax strategy specifically for female small business owners. And we talk a little bit about. she also is the host of the Messy, wonderful blog. She has a podcast and she dives really deep on all things motherhood, money and business.
So what we talk about in this episode is some experiences that she's had parting ways with clients, how she defines. Parting ways and firing and that there is some nuance there. we dive into some of her practical tips for how to part ways on good terms with clients, how to make it easier for you. things that she, would recommend not doing, things like that.
And also just generally the importance of making sure that you are finding the right clients and how sometimes that can be scary, because it might mean that you have to say no to some people. So I really hope you enjoy this conversation.
Welcome. Welcome, everyone. Welcome Kimberly. Back again to the
Kimberley: podcast. Just gonna just call me the next Julia .
Jordan: Yeah, seriously. This is becoming a regular thing. I love it. okay, well, we are gonna talk about some juicy stuff as we usually do, and this time we're gonna talk about.
Firing clients slash parting ways with clients. I've been trying to like soften it. I feel like firing clients is super negative if, um, though usually it is kind of a negative experience parting ways with a client no matter what the reason is. but also a good thing. So, Where should we start?
Kimberley: Can I say I parting ways and firing are different and I've done both.
Like, you know, I have fired a client and I've, we've, and I've had a client, we mutually parted ways because we were no longer a good fit. Right. And that client is always welcome to come back if we ever are a good fit. If I fired a client, they are not welcome back, most likely. Oh, okay. That's so in my mind, I, I'm glad I asked.
That's how I, that's how I choose to separate the two in my mind.
Jordan: Yeah. . That's a good distinction. I was just trying to like soften it and broaden it and because there there is nuance, like there are lots of situations where you might stop working with a client. yeah, the mutual is interesting. So maybe we'll touch on a couple of these things.
Okay. But let's start with the juicy firing, because that's the one that I think doesn't get talked about as much. Yeah. In terms of. The why and the how and the aftermath and all of the things. So maybe you can tell us about the first client you ever had to fire. Okay.
Kimberley: So the first client that I've ever fired, was, I'm trying to, how do I say this diplomatically?
an older male attorney who was retiring from being a partner in his law practice. He, so he had some different things going on as. Moving from being a business owner to retiring, but still, being an owner in the business and rental properties. We worked together for a couple of seasons too, and. Of course, of course.
So, I mean, I had only been in business three years at the time, and of course it's an attorney, so I'm like, he's . I'm like, like I'm just trying to like cover my butt so that he doesn't sue me. Right. Because like this is, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is an attorney. This is gonna be litigious. Like, you know, I'm going to all the worst case scenarios in my brain.
Yeah, right. Do. Because I'm like, of course this is an attorney. so. , it wa It was really scary. It was really, really scary. But I knew that I needed to do it because I felt like it was only gonna keep getting worse. Like all like the problems were just gonna keep compounding and I felt like I needed to just like sever it before it did become a situation where it would become litigious.
So, , the problems kind of were surrounding, unreasonable expectations. Him not getting us what we needed, but then like, having these expectations and I'm like, but I can't, I can't do what you're asking me to do because you haven't given me what I've asked for. having penalties and interest or accrue with the irs, but they weren't from anything we had done.
So there was nothing I could do about that. And it just, it. We just were not a good fit. And I, I wrote a letter and, I, I guess you would call it like, like maybe a disengagement letter, but basically saying, , you know, we wanna let you know that for the upcoming tax season, you know, we, we will not be, working with you.
We've returned all of your documents. Please note you have so many days to, retrieve all of your documents from our portal before you archive your account. I sent it via certified mail and I just like, Prayed that like, please just let this be the end of it and like, not like please just let this be the end of it.
That I, I mean like, I just, I still like can like remember how I felt, like, how nervous I was doing all of that and like, please don't come back at me. Please just let this like be done. And it was, and it was, it was, it was, it was, it was done. I don't even, I think he got all of his stuff. I, I don't even think, cuz I've had a couple of clients like come back and be like, oh, can you send me this?
Or I forgot to get that. or we got a notice. But in honestly, I haven't had a ton of clients leave. and I haven't had to fire a ton of clients. I would say I've more mu. . I don't know if it's mutually parted ways, but I've probably just more parted ways because my, like, you know, my firm has gone in a different direction, or their business has gone in a different direction, so we're no longer a good fit.
And so it's more just letting them know, you know, I, I, I think we need to find you someone else. I, I really haven't had to fire, I've only had to fire maybe two or three clients in total.
Jordan: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . . Yeah. That's not bad. Especially six years in business. Yeah, that's pretty
Kimberley: good. And they were all from the beginning, right?
Because I've, I've become, yeah. More choosy, let's say, on who I bring on as a client now d as a direct result of some of those firings, right? Like, ooh, I don't, yeah, I don't wanna get myself into that, situation again. So, yeah, it, it, thankfully it's not something that I have happened frequent. .
Jordan: Yeah. So tell me about that piece because, As you know, I call these red flags.
when you are potentially thinking about working with someone or that, or once you are working with them, then the red flags become very clear. Yes. what are those for you?
Kimberley: so I, I will say that I'm like a very. Gut feeling kind of person. I have really good intuition. And so, I, I really trust myself when I'm like, Hmm, I'm not getting a good vibe from this call or these questions.
And in the beginning, even though looking back, I probably felt that way, but I was just saying yes to all the clients. So I was overlooking that, that intuition saying, eh, I don't know about this. I really trust that intuition now. So I think that that's step one, especially as women. We have really good intuitions usually.
So I think trusting yourself and not being so concerned with making the sale or getting the client that you are willing to overlook the red flags for the money. I, I think that that, yeah, I think that that's like first and foremost some other red flags in my industry are. Being really behind on tax return filings.
Now that's, that's not to say for everyone because I have had a lot of clients that come to me and for various reasons, they're pri, they're a little bit behind and we work to get them up to, up to date and, and current on their filings. So, not to say that that's everyone, but, a lot of disorganization in their financials.
not being able to answer some simple questions that they really should know the answer to can be a red flag. I'll ask. Who they were working with previously, what that relationship was like. Right. So, you know, one of those like, it's not you, it's me. And it's like, no, it's definitely you. It is, it is 1000%.
You , like, you know, the things that they tell me about their previous cpa. Yes, I can. almost instantly tell if it really was the c p a. And I've had clients come to me and I'm like, Ugh, you had like such a raw deal with that prior C P A, I'm, I'm so sorry. It makes our profession look bad. And then there are other people I'm like, no, no, this was you.
This was not, this was not them. so, you know, that actually is like a really telling one depending on what they say about their previous, tax professional.
Jordan: Yeah, for sure. I, I think that that is super important. So I've had situations where I've been talking about potentially working with someone. And for me, and I haven't talked about this red flag, any kind of bad mouthing period is usually like a red flag for me. I don't think that that's like super appropriate in professional circles.
Like even if I'm looking for someone. New and maybe I have had a bad situation, like I'm usually just factually laying it out of like, yes, I, here were the problems that I'm trying to solve or like the issues that I had, but bad mouthing or having like a string of previous people that haven't worked out is more of a pattern situation than it is like absolutely one bad situation.
Kimberley: Yes. I mean, if, if I look at their tax, they're past three tax returns and they all have different preparers. That, you know, that, that, that tells me something, mm-hmm. , unless their situation has uniquely changed or they moved maybe, or, you know, something like that. But if I see three different preparers, that's probably not a good sign because they're just, they're just jumping ship probably to the cheapest person year over year.
They're not looking for a relationship, they're just looking for the cheapest deal. And that's not my client. Mm-hmm. . That might be somebody else's client, but that's not my.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that distinction. Okay. Factual. But
Kimberley: I like how you said that, right? It, it's not bad mouthing if you're just stating facts, this person, right.
If you had a bad experience this. Right. Yeah. So I like that. Yeah, I like that you said it factual. Keep it factual and it's not really bad mouthing.
Jordan: Yeah, for sure. Any other red flags, that you keep an eye
Kimberley: out for? You know, for me, cost, again, this isn't gonna apply to everyone, but like, you know, I'm not the cheapest out there.
I don't wanna be the cheapest. We focus on the quality. So if somebody's only worried about the cost, , they're just not gonna be a good fit because I, I want them to see the value. I want them to want to have the, the partnership with me to propel them forward. So again, I understand that everybody has a budget.
I understand that everybody has to make business decisions. That's just not who I'm looking for. So if I can tell that they're like, only cost conscious, not I have a budget. I need to see if we're aligned with what I can afford. That's not what I'm talking about, but like they're hem and hawn and nitpicking, and they're only worried about the money and not like, what can we do together?
What are the tax savings? That's kind of a red flag just for my business.
Jordan: Yeah. Well, it starts it off on like a, there's. An issue with their perception of the value. Correct. I think it's, and it's not, like you said, this is separate from can you afford it or not, but if you're being nitpicky and questioning the value,
I think some like just typically that goes really south. Yes. Like for me, when I know I wanna work with someone and they tell me the price, like I either know if I'm willing to pay that or not. And if I'm not willing to pay it, I'm not willing to pay it. Of course. And I'm not gonna try to convince myself to pay it.
Right. But if it's a good fit, even if the price is high, like you're just
Kimberley: gonna pay it and I'm gonna find a way. Right. I like, I'm gonna be like, well, I wanna do this. So what do, what do I need to do to make this happen? and you know, for most of our clients, Jordan, we actually like, my goal is to save them more in taxes than the investment that they make with us.
So it's really a win-win if you just, you know, if you just have a little faith and you gimme your finances and you let me do my thing, you're really, most of our clients more than come out ahead of, of the investment that they're making with us. Yeah. Again, and that's what I want. I want to over-deliver to.
Yeah.
Jordan: Yeah. I love that. Okay, so let's talk about firing. All right. Any other people that you've f fired that you wanna walk us through? Sure. The situation. Yeah.
Kimberley: There's, there was another person that I fired and it, and it came down to, , they were constantly late with getting their stuff to me. It was, it was making, it was making it stressful for me.
Right. And I'm like, your lack of planning is not my problem, but, but it was stressing me out, causing me to, you know, just, it, it wasn't the way that I wanted my business to run. And they were just kind of all over the place. And I was questioning some of the. Information that they were giving me. Right?
And I, I don't know if they were being completely honest and transparent about what was going on. They only wanted to give me like, one business return. They didn't want me to see the full picture. And so those were some red flags that I had, and I was like, you know, mm-hmm. , what? I, I don't think that were gonna be able, I don't, I don't think that were the right fit for you moving.
Forward. and, and they were pretty okay with that. you know, I, I had already fired that very first client that we talked about, so this conversation wasn't the first time I was having it. I wasn't worried about it becoming, you know, like litigious or anything like that. But I felt like, w. No matter what I was charging them at the time, it just, it wasn't a good, it wasn't who I am as a person, where my ethics stand and where I want, wanted my firm to be going at the time.
And so I felt like it was, you know, it was a good time for us to part ways and so I let them go.
Jordan: Yeah. And I think like the piece about, well, it was stressful for me. Like that in my opinion, is enough of a reason. Yeah. Like that. Like that's the great thing about having your own business is you get to decide who you're gonna work with.
And I know people say that all the time, but like really though, you get to decide who you're gonna work with and if someone causes you stress, regardless of the reason you don't have to work with them. Like I think that's, that I think is really important. We just had to fire a client fairly recently. And give a refi.
I mean, it was like a very stressful situation on my end financially to have to make that decision. But I knew that like the stress that I am experiencing on the daily because of this client is in no way worth any amount of money. Right? Like, it's just not, it's just not worth it. Right. And it, it doesn't have to be like a super negative thing about them.
Like she wasn't a terrible person. Like there wasn't, there was nothing like major. It was just a constant level of daily stress. And I was like, We're done. We're done. Like there's not
Kimberley: enough money in the world. Yep, yep. And remember, this client was, you know, Before my third year of business, you know, this, I let this client go.
So they were only probably with me for two, two seasons. you know, and so I will say like I was taking on more of any client back then. Yeah. And I was more concerned about, you know, I had left my nice W two paying job and, you know, I was just worried about making sure the money was coming in for our family.
Yeah. And, but again, I truly believe. If you let go of the clients that are stressing you out, that are draining you, it's going to open the opportunity for a bigger, better client to come in.
Jordan: It's so true, and I'm kind of curious your opinion on this because I agree. and I recognized that like one of my very first clients, I, I mean, it was red flags left and right and I, I, but I didn't know really at the time sure about red flags.
Great, because I had just gotten started and I didn't really know how to structure my offer. Like there was a million things that I didn't know how to do and I didn't know how to recognize the red flags even. If I think about it now, I mean, I was waking up in the middle of the night, kind of like hoping that she wouldn't sign the contract.
Well, , if there ever was a red flag, that'ss it. That's it. And if I think back about it though, I think I would still, like, if I knew what I know now, I think I would still take her on as a client because. . It was a really important learning experience for me to go all the way through it. So like if you're listening to this and you're like, okay, , I'm in the thick of starting my business and getting my first clients, and maybe I am seeing some red flags, like I don't know if I can in good conscious tell you not to take any clients just because they're not a perfect fit.
Kimberley: Yes. So I completely agree with the lessons learned, but you have to be open and willing to list, like to reflect on the lessons.
Right? And I will, now that I think about it, this person, so I had somebody literally never become a client and they stiffed me and it was like, I don't know, it was like $450 at the time, which in my. Within my first four months of business, pregnant, renovating a house like 400 back in 2016. Yeah, that was a lot of money to me at the time, and thankfully I wasn't out any money, just just my time.
Right. They needed a letter. So if you're a business owner, and I, you know, we have a lot of business owners listening, so they're probably familiar with this. If you go to, get a, like a mortgage for your house, for example, a lot of times the underwriters will ask you for a letter from a C P A. Like verifying what?
That your numbers are accurate and correct and that your business basically isn't gonna go belly out next year when they give you this mortgage. So this person needed this, and so I was like, Ooh, this is exciting. I can do this. I can charge for this. And they never paid me. , but here's my lesson learned.
So from then on, it was a 50% deposit down before I even started looking at any numbers or composing this letter. And then it was the remaining 50% due. So then I would give them a draft of the letter so that we could make sure that all of the information was accurate and everything, but I wouldn't.
until they paid. So if that person had not done that to me, it never would have shifted my mindset of charging people up front, because I really was, I was, in those days, I was doing a lot of work and then getting paid, but it totally shifted the way that I charged people and. The, the total fee was the same, but it was 50% up front before I started doing the work.
And fif like, you will finish paying me because you don't have anything to, to, I don't wanna say hold over them in a bad way, but like you have nothing to ensure that you get paid for your work if you've already given them everything. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Huge lesson. .
Jordan: Yeah. And, and I think in a, in an ideal world, everyone could just listen to this podcast and, you know, have a wonderful business coach or mentor and like they could just be told all of these things.
Mm-hmm. and then they would go do things perfectly. But I don't know anyone who's ever experienced business like that. No. I feel like usually. You learn your best lessons in the thick of it, buddy. You do even in
Kimberley: life fucking shit up . Yeah. I mean, even in life, right? Like I believe in, you know, I think that like we've come and, you know, we're basically the same age.
So, you know, I think that we've come to this place where parents are like protecting their kids from everything. And I'm like, no, you gotta let 'em fly man. My parents let me fly and that's. Why I think that I'm as resilient and resourceful as I am today at 32 is because my parents, you know, they were always there for me and they would give advice and they would step in If I was 15 and I couldn't solve it after making a valid attempt, they of course would step in.
But like parents have got to let their kids fly these days. You can't protect them from everything. You can't let 'em live at home forever. You can't pay for everything forever. Like you. I'm not gonna go on a rain cause I feel,
Jordan: well you can, but it's not gonna be good. It's not gonna end ,
Kimberley: it's not gonna be good.
It's not gonna end well for. You're not like, I believe that my job as a parent, and then I'm gonna get off this soapbox, but my job as a parent is to teach my kids how to do life and some of the best lessons I've had, I've learned them the hard way and I have never forgotten that lesson and it will never happen to me again.
Rant over preach .
Jordan: I love it. . I love it. Well, spoiler alert, we're gonna have to have you back again to talk all about mom and business life and that juggle because I, I feel like I daily experience things that I'm like, wow, this exact thing that's happening in parenthood is just exactly what, like it's so what's happening in my business and vice versa.
It's, it's so interesting. Yes. Oh my gosh. It's so interesting. Yes. Okay, well we're gonna dissect that another time. Yeah. I'm gonna put you on the spot here. If you had to leave us with like a couple of like really practical things that people could do to make firing a client easier, what would they be?
Kimberley: Okay. I do have a couple thoughts on this. Don't keep waiting. Don't. Mm-hmm. , don't just put it off and think that it's gonna get better or, maybe it'll like, and I know it's scary, so I know that that can be easier said than done, but it's kind of like ripping a bandaid off. Just do it. Yeah. Don't wait.
Yeah. Because you're just gonna get more and more stressed. You're, you're gonna, it, it is just gonna spiral downwards. So don't wait. Just do it. If you know that that's what you need to do, just, just please do it. The other thing that I wanna say is, , once you've made up your mind that you need to let this client go.
Don't go back and forth. Don't, yeah. Negotiate. Don't, let them talk you into taking them back. Don't let them tell you they're gonna be better. They're gonna change. It's kind of like if you're like, separating from a boyfriend or a girlfriend, right. Like again, it's kind of like life. I mean, like, they're probably not gonna change.
It's probably not gonna get better. don't go back and forth. Keep it diplomatic, try and be kind about it. Try and, like my husband's a lot better at this than I am. I, I had to, let somebody go and he is like, well, you don't need to tell 'em all of that. Like, what went wrong and like, what you didn't like.
Oh man. He's like, just, just say our financial situation. It was something on the personal side. He's like, just say our financial situation changed and just let it go and. That's a good idea. And then after I did it, I was like, you, that was a really good idea, babe. Like, you know, cause I was, we are overexplaining.
I was overexplain. He's like, please don't get into like, you, you, she doesn't need to know all of that. And he was so, right. So less is, that's another one. Less is more. less is more. Mm-hmm. . So, you know, so I think that would be, it is like, don't wait, just do, it's like ripping a bandaid off. Don't negotiate back and forth or take them back and less is more.
Those are my three.
Jordan: I love it. I know you'd have some good, some good tips that you could rattle off there quick. That's perfect. okay. Well, we will, of course, as usual have all of your information in the show notes so people can find you, connect with you, learn about what you do. Anything else you wanna leave us with?
Kimberley: Oh, you know, Don't give up. Don't give up just because you have to fire a client. Just because a client mutually parts ways, because a client fires you, don't give up. Like it, it keep going. You will survive. failure is humbling. coming from somebody who is really not used to failing, I've had a couple things along the way that have, you know, just really humbled me.
So don't give up. Keep, keep pushing forward if you really want to, if this is really the path for you, really what you wanna do. Keep pushing.
Jordan: I love it. Yep. It's all part of the process, so gotta embrace it. Yep. Amazing. Thank you so much. Right, thanks. This was wonderful.