Real Talk | How to find clients with Jordan + Julia

How do you find clients in 2023? Easy answer. 👇🏼

Throw out the flashy marketing concepts you were taught in the past and say hello once again to the basics.

My coach, Julia, and I riff on some of the biggest foundational sales and marketing pieces that we predict will become Old Reliable™ when it comes to finding clients online.

In this episode, we're chatting through:
⭐️ Why old-school networking is making a big time come back
⭐️ How saying goodbye to the cookie-cutter tactics and strategies will grow your biz faster than any template
⭐️ Why running tiny experiments in your messaging and marketing are the key to figuring out who your people are
⭐️ The exact thought processes and strategies we're using to find clients in 2023
...and soooo much more.

My guest is Julia DeWolfe, she is one of my coaches, a certified Cognitive Behavioral Therapy practitioner, and what she calls an 'everything coach' for entrepreneurs.

Julia is a regular guest on the podcast and together we explore the more emotional side of business ownership and dig into many of the things that I've personally struggled with or overcome in my own business.

Connect with Jordan Schanda King:

• Website: easyscaling.com
• Instagram: @jordanschandaking

Connect with this week’s guest Julia DeWolfe

• Website: juliadewolfecoaching.com
• Instagram: @juliadewolfecoaching

Transcript

32 # Real Talk | How to find clients with Jordan + Julia

Jordan: All righty. In this episode, Julia is back. She's joining us for another episode of some Real Talk and we're diving into how to find clients. So we're talking about that all this month, and I wanted to share a lot of my own experiences, dive deep into the weeds on exactly where my clients are coming from, what I've tried, what's worked, what hasn't worked, and get into more of this like reflection and exploration on what's worked for us and what hasn't.

And so of course, Julia is gonna help us, navigate that conversation. And lots of really cool things come up. lots of really cool insights from Julia as usual. So I hope you enjoy this conversation. 

 Welcome. Welcome everyone, and welcome back, Julia, to the podcast. Hey, howdy. How's it going? What are It's good, it's good. you know, it's good cuz we just talked for like 30 minutes because we had too much to catch up on before we could start recording. but we're gonna talk about finding clients today.

That's what we're talking about all month. This month is finding clients and you're gonna help me reflect and kind of process some of my own, approaches to finding clients and how that's evolved since we've been in business.

Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah. 

Julia: So finding clients, that's something that is usually the biggest hurdle for people. That is like, well, is anyone actually gonna buy this thing? You can have the big idea, but will anybody actually buy it? So should we start with your first client? 

Jordan: Is that where we're I think so. That probably is like a good, a good starting point.

I feel like we're always like, where should we start? Maybe at the beginning. . Yeah. 

Julia: A very good place to start. And I think I quilt the sound of music every time we say that. Yeah. Do you? Yeah. A very 

Jordan: good place to start. Is that what you say? 

Julia: That's one of the songs, like, let's start at the beginning. It's a very good place to start and then I don't know what song 

Jordan: it is, but I never put that together.

You do say that every time, but I never realized that's what you were doing. Okay. Well, sound of music. There we go. Yeah. so yeah, taking it back to the beginning. so for anyone, anyone listening. If you don't know, this business is about a year and a half old. And this is not my first business, this is my third business.

I have had a very long, journey and evolution in terms of entrepreneurship and, and business and, finding my way of what I do and what I like to do and things like that. And so this business felt like really, I don't know, inspired. Does that sound stupid? Like how do you, how do you put it? Is it, it's like, it felt like the only obvious path.

Like once I kind of figured it out, it was just like, duh. Of course that's what I would do as a business. I dunno how you word that. Yeah. I think when your 

Julia: business is really aligned with your values, your integrity, and the idea that you have, you just know mm-hmm. , I always put it in the terms of like, before you get married.

People will be like, when you know, you 

Jordan: know, when you know, you know, that is my, you don't know. Yep. That's my husband. And i's like catch phrase annoying. 

Julia: Yeah. It's so annoying. You're like, oh my God. But honestly and truly when you know, you know, it's true. And I think it's the same with your business. 

Jordan: Yeah.

And definitely in this case, because I had, I had experimented a lot and tried a lot of different things in business and both in my first two businesses, but then also in trying to start this third venture, my first solo venture I like, I tried a lot of things and dabbled in a lot of different things that I just wasn't sure what I wanted to do.

And then once I settled on this, it kind of just like presented itself and it was very obvious. And it wasn't like a bolt of lightning necessarily. I feel like I'm kind of describing it that way, but it wasn't that way because even when I go back to thinking. thinking about what I was thinking about when I was in my second business, I kind of had tossed around this idea of a contract, c o o and I didn't even know if it was a thing, but I was like, is that possible?

Can, can someone just like pay me to do that? Because I could do that really easily, is kind of how it felt. But I wasn't sure if it was a thing. And then I kind of set it aside and continue doing other things and dabbling and, and trying to find my way. And then when it came back around, it was like, duh, I've talked about this.

I've thought about this before. This is for sure it. And so as this relates to finding clients, the way that it kind of presented itself as the obvious solution or option is that a friend of mine, who had been a past acquaintance, a past client and another business reached out to me and was looking for something really specific.

and she was needing strategy, but she was also needing someone who could just do the thing because she didn't know how to actually create the thing. I would think, I think it was like a freebie funnel or something that she was like, I need someone to help me figure out what this should be, and then to actually create it for me.

And I was like, well, let me tell you. I've done a lot of that. That is easy peasy. I can for sure help you with that. And we continue to have conversations about it, and it just became this thing of like strategy and implementation. That is what I can do easily. And that sounds fun. And around that exact same time, it was so interesting.

I saw someone posting a Facebook group and they were like, I have this O B M, but I feel like I'm just still in the weeds all the time. And like she's the, my O B M is great, but she's not in the strategy. And so like I'm, I'm kind of like, I'm needing both and I don't feel like I can get both anywhere. And I was like, huh.

Interesting. I just came up with this as a thing and I like told her about it. And these two clients, one a friend, one someone totally random who I'd never met, both signed within 24 hours of each other. And my business was born just like that. 

Julia: Just like that. That's awesome. So your first two clients, one was somebody that you knew, and then another person was just someone that, because you were ready with the idea, you decided to pull the trigger and pitch 

Jordan: it.

Yeah. Yeah, because it was like what they were asking for was so obviously what I was offering, and I just happened to see it. I mean, it was, it feels like a fluke and we can talk about that a little bit. But, I just happened to be scrolling Facebook and I, I'm in all of these female entrepreneur focused Facebook groups and actually my third client, I got that same way, is that I saw them post in a Facebook group saying what they were needing.

And I was like, oh my gosh, this is the same thing. and so yeah, my, my first client was a friend. My, my second and third clients were from Facebook groups just asking for something specific, which is exactly what I was offering. I think that 

Julia: Facebook groups still, I know a lot has changed. E everything's always changing pretty quickly, but I, I think that Facebook groups, especially depending on what kind of service you're running, they're so valuable for those exact kind of things that I, I think so many businesses start with kind of pounding the pavement in the Facebook groups, just Yeah, paying attention.

Yeah. Is that how you got your next couple of clients too? 

Jordan: No. No. So things changed very drastically after I got those first two clients, because I was at a point in my business journey that I wasn't feeling a lot of patience. I had been. Running or building a business for, at that 0.7 or eight years and had moved on from my first two businesses and I, I, we started working together around the same time.

And I remember telling you like, I'm done playing small. I'm done waiting. Like I'm going all in the, I am going all in and this is either gonna be huge or it's not gonna work out, and then I'm gonna be done with this. Right. And I was just, at that point, I was kind of, I felt like I was at, in, at this like, you know, inflection point in my life and I felt so sure of this business idea that I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna throw everything at it and I don't want to grow this slowly.

I, I just didn't have patience for it at that time and I didn't want to do it small. I wanted to do it big, so, , I decided after I got those first two clients that I was actually going to create my L l C and get my e i n and like do all of these official, you know, legal things and invest in Facebook ads.

I felt like this really strong calling to create a Facebook ads strategy. What's interesting is that I was sure that I was gonna create a Facebook ads funnel for passive income, cuz I knew that I wanted passive income and I knew I wanted that to be a big part of what I did. And so I was specifically looking for someone to build me out a passive income funnel to a course.

And I didn't have anything like already created, but I had like a lot of, intellectual property from a past business that I could create a course with and, and I had just a ton of information there and I was like, okay, well this is, could for sure be the thing. But, I interviewed. You know, this is kind of how I approach almost everything in my life.

I interviewed probably like 10 Facebook ads strategists, marketing strategists, funnel people, and ads people. And this one, this one gal in particular was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's all great. But I don't think that's where we should start. I think we need to start with a book of call funnel, cuz you have this obviously validated idea of this high ticket service.

I think that's what we designed the funnel for. We, we get income coming in consistently that way gets you fully booked and then we reinvest that money back into building a passive income funnel. And I was like, wow, you're the only person who said that. That's genius. Let's do that. And she was, she's like, I'm just gonna give you all of the materials and stuff cuz I found her on a book, a call funnel for her high ticket service.

So she's like, I've got everything. I've got the landing page, I've got all the stuff, all the materials that you can just, you know, duplicate and customize to be your own. It's gonna be easy. And then we'll build, build the Facebook ads and then once that's done we'll we'll build everything else for the other thing.

And I'll be damned if it didn't work fantastically. So that's where all my next several clients came from was Facebook ads. 

Julia: Yeah. I remember when you were, connecting with the ads, that was such a pivotal moment where you had gotten those couple of clients. And then I will always remember that conversation. I remember it's another one of those moments. I remember your office, I remember where you were sitting at your old house and the conversation around like, do I stay doing this and this would be my maximum amount of income or.

do I go all in and figure out what this looks like? So, those first few clients, you know, nothing, nothing feels as good as getting those first few clients and having the idea validated. But it also allows you to get a little bit of income, wiggle room to know, okay, no, I would be bringing income with, in, with this.

How would I do this if I were going to really play big? Mm-hmm. , how, how would things look different? And, that was a huge shift. Cause I also remember you recording stuff for your course and that, that kind of pivoting. And I think that's an important thing to speak to as well. When you find your first, your first clients will always be precious because they're the ones who believed in you.

They're the ones who were like, yeah, let's do this thing. But very often your first clients signed up for a service that is completely different than the service that you are probably offering now. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. Do you think that's true? . 

Jordan: Yes, it is. It is. And I think even within like the, the very narrow range of like my first client to like my fourth client, things drastically changed within that.

You know what I mean? I learned a lot with my first two clients. My very first client is still with me. And the way that she works with us is it does look different than the way that our other clients work with us because it's, it's evolved so quickly in price and scope and all of these things. But she has, like, we have grown and she has grown with us in some ways, but in other ways we've, we've kept her in kind of like a, a special place because she, like, I wouldn't be here without her, you know?

And so it is, it is interesting to think about that. And then, you know, the second client and then the third client and the fourth client all came on at different times in different price points and different scopes. But they've also evolved with us and most of them are, are now, kind of at like a similar place.

The price in the scope difference wasn't as drastic when they started as it is now. So, it it's pretty comparable. But, yeah, it is interesting to think about how, how different the business is now than when they started. 

Julia: Yeah. And, and also that it still works, right? Because again, back to that idea of having an aligned business idea, it's really just refinement as you take your idea out to the public and you're working with people, everything, you know, when I used to teach dance, so I grew up doing ballet from the time that I was two until I was like 21 and then I got injured, new fun facts, I had a hip injury, but I also taught, I did classical ballet for years and I really loved it. But when I used to do choreography in my head, I would have this like, amazing. I was like, oh yeah, it's gonna do this and then it's gonna do that. And I would always tell anyone I was working with, I don't know if this is actually physically possible, so let's find out, because I needed to get it now where like we were actually gonna be doing it together as a group.

Is this actually possible with our body ? And I feel like that's so much with our business, we have these ideas of like, we can do this and we can do that, but you really need to get it into other people's businesses or providing that service with people. And then through that you get to tweak it and work together.

And so everything, everything moves together. So the this, the core ideas are there, but now it's just field tested and that's where so much of that, that difference comes from. Mm-hmm. . I also love, sometimes I talk about the client family tree and Jordan, you are one of my client family tree branches

Yay. But when we look at those, those early clients that we have, and then when we look and see. Where our business has gone or the people that we've connected with, usually we can trace it back. We have that like business genealogy and that's where I love that we're talking about those first clients because they are, they're just special.

Mm-hmm. 

Jordan: they are. That's so interesting. I never, I don't think you've ever mentioned the client family tree. To me that's like really interesting. That would be a, that would be a cool thing to like actually lay out on like paper and see where things have branched off and new opportunities and new clients presented themselves and new connections and all the things.

Julia: Yeah. None of us gets anywhere alone, and so when we can look at with our clients, because when you start with a new client, now you're into a different audience of people because mm-hmm. , they'll talk about what's going on or who they're working with and so many. connections have come up and you're like, I wonder how this person found me.

And then when they say how they found you, you're like, I never would've imagined that it would loop that way. But it just all branches out and usually you can kind of trace it back to the 

Jordan: starters. Yeah, for sure. And, and you know, since we're talking about finding clients, I will say I have found the same thing to be actually probably even more true, when it comes to my investments into other things and my, I guess networking and connections that I'm making, for my own business and for my own learning.

So like masterminds and memberships and different things like that. I feel like that is a much bigger tree than the client tree maybe because I like doing that type of stuff, but I feel like that's a pretty, I feel like that's a pretty common traditional marketing. Strategy, you know, networking, connecting.

It feels like it's a pretty foundational option that just looks different now, in the online world. but almost every time that I'm a part of something, a business mastermind, I was in a membership, all about podcasting and found clients from both of those things. Multiple clients, not even just one client, but multiple clients, you know?

So I think looking at that, looking at that as a family tree is a kind of cool analogy too. 

Julia: I think that networking got a little talked to the side for a while, and I think that because with everything moving online, so much stuff is online. I think about that sometimes. Like how would I market my business if the internet was barely a thing?

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I sometimes I'll drive by offices and it's this like little tiny office and it's like, I don't know, an accountant and you know that they've been there for like 50 years. And I just, I think about that where it's like you just have this standing office and people are just coming to you. They just know you like, what is going on?

How are we doing this? And so much of it is that network. And I think that we're starting to shift away from the, the kind of anonymous feel of, of Facebook ads are great. Those kind of marketing things are still great. There's still a lot there, but I think a lot of people are getting back to like, this is my network, this is my crew of people.

We're looking for that community and how we get back into the, into a community feel where that way we can all be kind of sending people to in different directions, sending people to our network. And I feel like when we focus on that, it really brings a lot of the humanity back to our business, which sometimes can feel.

very lost when we're, we're just kind of going it alone. Mm-hmm. in that online 

Jordan: space. Yeah, totally. I don't remember where I mentioned this, but I think I've talked about this in a couple of different places recently, and it's that, it's that, I think 20 20, 20 23 is all about back to basics and foundations.

Mm-hmm. , I'm seeing it everywhere. Everyone's talking about it. It's like networking is making a big comeback. just like referrals general, like, like basic, basic business principles I feel like is coming back with a vengeance. and even like, even so much in, in like how we structure our offers and all kinds of things, not just in marketing, but also in like business structures and things like that.

I think people kind of, I don't know, maybe like a little bit of a boom and bus cycle on some of these things in the online space. but it just feels good. It, like you said, it feels. Good to network and connect and be part of something, and then for your clients to come that way, it just feels different.

It's got a different vibe. Now, that's not to say that I'm getting away from ads because, you know, most people know ads are a big part of our marketing strategy and I can like, tell, give everybody, everyone a quick overview of kind of like where our clients come from. but ads make up about 30 ish percent, maybe a little bit more.

And then, my network personal connections is about 20, 25%, referrals about 15%. And then kind of this other like weird catchall bucket with like organic social media, Facebook groups, being part of like, you know, collaboration bundles, guest podcasting, stuff like that is close to like, again, like 25, 30%.

And so, It's a good mix, but fa but Facebook ads, Facebook and Instagram ads for us in particular are like pretty good. But I see advertising as back to basics too. Mm-hmm. , I, I think that ads specifically that are directly selling a service to me feels like back to basics. And it's funny, right? Right now, we're running some ads to like a traditional freebie tripwire funnel type thing.

but actually the bulk of our ad spend is going to just like straight up, here's the, here's our offer. Mm. apply or straight to our service guide. This is something we're experimenting with right now that is getting lower cost per leads than our webinar used to get when we did a webinar. Which is kind of crazy that, that is like cheaper, you know,

cuz there's like, no, not necessarily any value with it. it's just work with us and here's how you can do it. . 

Julia: I think I love that though, because again, back to basics, the cloak and dagger nature of pricing in the online space drives me bonkers. Yeah. Sometimes I just wanna know what does it cost to work with someone, because then I can understand, could I afford it or not.

Mm-hmm. . And I don't necessarily want to jump through hoops to figure out like, what am I dealing with here? I don't wanna have to apply to know if I could even pay for it . And so I think that that, I think that that makes total sense because what do we love more than straightforward information? And again, thinking about advertising, advertising should be a pillar.

It's been a pillar. , yeah. For a long time. We are all advertising something all the time and so we're really looking at having a plan and reaching a new market audience. I think the shame is when we only go a hundred percent in on one thing instead of diversifying, then we start to feel a little desperate, and that's where we start to skew, a little unbalanced.

I also wonder, do you think some of this is from the, the boom of on in the online business space because of Covid where so many people started businesses online? Do you feel like some of this is connected to people being like, oh, I gotta figure this out? 

Jordan: Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about this. and I posted something about this lately because I feel like lots of businesses are actually like ending

Mm-hmm. and like being closed down and. , regardless of economy. I kind of think it's more like life cycle of a, of a new business and the fact that tons of people started businesses during Covid Yeah. And experimented with some of these things. And it's just kind of like, it's getting to the point now where like, how long can you sustain something like that.

Especially once we're kind of like back to normal. the economy is changing, but also just like how we're interacting with each other and the world is changing and business ownership is difficult. Mm-hmm. and you can hustle for a certain amount of time and then at some point you can't do that anymore.

And so I, I think there's a lot of businesses that were started during Covid that are starting to taper off or close down or, just the business owners are getting to the point where they're just, just like, I don't want to, I don't wanna do this anymore. You know? which is this like, , not totally exactly what you asked me, but is what's on my mind because I think we can look at that and be like, oh, shit.

Or we can look at that and be like, oh man, this is a great opportunity because there's, there's, a lot less noise in competition than there was. I think. 

Julia: I agree with you. I've been noticing that over the last couple of months, I think these last few months. I was actually just talking with a client about this earlier.

These last few months have been really hard for a lot of people. Mm-hmm. personally and business wise. And I'm noticing that a lot of that is tied to the dial kind of being turned back up on the real world life. Yeah. Right. We're, we're back, we're kind, we're back. You know, and that made a lot of the little cracks and crumbles that may have come up during covid for people.

really get amplified. And so now we're kind of forced to figure this stuff out. We're forced to sort through it and just figure out where we're going. And I think for many people Okay. Understandably too. the business world just wasn't fitting with that. Like it was just, it was too much. Mm-hmm. . And then other things, like you said, the life cycle of a business.

I mean, I don't know what the stat is. I know it used to be that people could expect, you know, to be in a business for about five years before they'd really be turning a big profit on stuff. And then I think with the online space, we tighten that up a lot. Where you could be in business for like two months, you know?

Yeah. You see people have these crazy booms, but then it gives a little bit of an unrealistic expectation around. The long haul of the business. You know, you may not always have those big months. How do you have business resiliency? And that's where I think we're looking at developing these skills of broadening the network, understanding how ads work, look speaking in different, to different markets in different ways.

And, establishing yourself 

Jordan: for real. Yeah. It's funny because I think that, part of the problem is that the way we are kind of like told to sell in the online space isn't, isn't like good business foundations, right? Like no other business just like does a a a live launch and then like scrambles to figure out how they're gonna do their next, you know, live launch.

That's just not really how businesses operate typically in the real world. But that is, that is like the. the norm and almost like the, the, the template for online B businesses. So it, it's kind of weird, and I think that's why people are starting to go back to basics because they're realizing like, well, this isn't sustainable for me personally, it's also not sustainable, financially, and this more like holistic diversified approach to revenue, but also to marketing, I think is really, really important.

There's some people that rely solely on referrals, and that actually is probably a more stable, way to go about doing it, you know, than relying on just launching and, you know, neglecting everything else. Yeah. There is 

Julia: like, like they called it the template because that, that is the feeling, right? If, if you want new clients, if you are going to.

clients, then you need to run a free event and then you need to get them in the funnel and then you're moving to the next thing. And it's so much pressure to create and always be coming up with something new that no wonder we're getting burned out because most of us didn't really sign up for that. We we're signing up to be really good at this set of things and helping other people be good at this thing, helping them.

We signed up for something pretty specific and now we're looking. being a course creator and coming up with all of these different things and how many different ways can you say the same thing to reach the different market over and over and over again? It's, it's a lot. 

Jordan: It's a lot. Yeah. Totally. And I, I think, you know, going back to, how I think this is affecting people's decision and thinking and offers and, and structures for this year and moving forward and going back to basics is I think people are getting away a little bit from like the idea that they have to create some type of digital passive product in order to scale.

Like services can be scaled and like maybe scaling means something different than it used to mean, you know? I just think there's a lot more, there's a lot more openness and acceptance to the idea that there are a million different ways to do this and, and, there isn't necessarily a template. And if someone's selling you a template, they're probably bullshitting you.

Julia: Yeah. I cannot wait. till we fully shift away from the cookie cutter approach. Like, we're getting there. This is my exact process and this, yeah. I think we are getting there. And that is something else that I think, is interesting in this space is that the legitimacy of the, of the space is starting to bubble up to the top.

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. because, because there was so many people who were doing things. I look at that with even coaching. I am certified. I did go through courses to make sure that I knew what I was talking about, because that's important to me, and I know that a lot of people are not, because there's nobody that's going to come and check and make sure that you are mm-hmm.

because the coaching space, you know, it's, it's a new kind of a space. And in some ways, yes, I do like that people have the option to speak to their expertise and help people do that, but when something is you have to do this exact set of things in order to get those results, then I don't find that duplicatable or.

versatile at all. Mm-hmm. , it's, it, it becomes unfair because it's not factoring in that person's individual set of strengths, what they want their business to actually look like, how they want their clients to feel, how they even wanna find those people. So yeah. I'm, I am very much looking forward to the day when that marketing tactic is just completely gone.

Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. And, and the other side of this that, you know, Super passionate about is just the transparency around context in all of these things because, it's one thing to say, oh, here's what I did. Just do this. It's another thing to be totally transparent about all of the other things that aligned to make it possible for you to do what you did.

You know, like there's all of these other things about, well, what are the connections that you had? Or did you have money to invest in ads or did you, do, you know, like there's, there's a million things, you know, even just in your personal life, there's a a ton of different things that can be different in someone's context or constraints or resources that can impact how they did that one thing, you know?

So it's just, it's frustrating to me when I see people talking about what they've done, but without all of the context that I think is really important for people to be able to look at it and say, okay, well is that really gonna work for me because this is my context? Or was there something that was a total fluke that that person benefited from?

In terms of like exposure or, you know, resources or connections or something. So, again, it's why I'm, I'm never, I, I like to almost overly emphasize the fact that we rely heavily on ads and that we invest pretty, pretty strongly in that. Because I don't want anyone to get any ideas that, like, this has been, something that I've just like, oh, I just go on social media and talk about what I do when people buy, or I send out an email, well, I send out an email to 5,000 people that I paid for to be on that list, you know?

and, and so That's okay. That works. That does work. I, I just, it's funny, I just. Had someone apply to my mastermind last night and I sent 'em a response, as soon as I saw, saw it come in because I laughed out loud when I got their application because at the last question was like, you know, is there anything else you wanna tell us about how you found us?

Jordan: Or whatever. And she was like, I've never heard of you in my life and I wanna work with you. That is the kind of system that I want in my business. And I was like, yeah, this is a great example of how well this works. And, and I don't, I don't wanna discount that, you know, . 

Julia: No. Cuz that's also a valuable skill that that comes through work to hone your ads, to be reaching the kind of person that's like, oh, that's what I want.

That's a lot of, that's a lot of. It and that that's the work that can also, somebody can understand that that work can even happen. Yeah. Especially when we're talking about finding clients. I do think that people forget all of the things that they were doing at the time or all of the, you talk about this a lot, that this one business was not just like, oh, ta-da.

This was years in the making because all of your past experiences brought you to the point where you were ready to do this and knew how to do it. Mm-hmm. . And we all need to factor that in. We all need to, to look at that. I've talked about that before with you where I've said like, unless someone's gonna tell me how to network with the exact group of people that they are networking with in order to make that thing happen, then we are missing the step.

We're missing the step because that person had that boom because of their network. Mm-hmm. . So we need to look at the actual reason why you were then in that group of people, or how you got yourself there. And I think everybody has their own individual. Group that they can be in that yes, it will take off, but it's a matter of understanding how, how you'll get to use that, how you're going to connect with the people who will be able to partner with you by your service, by whatever it is.

that's the skills where we need the help you developing your own skills versus me telling you 

Jordan: this is X, y, z. Yeah. And, and also being comfortable with continuing to experiment with it. Yes. So like the ads that I'm running that this gal responded to yesterday are night and day from the ads that I was running a year ago that were, and those ads were getting me clients too.

But it's, it's a constant evolution and I'm continually experimenting with it. Like my messaging is a little bit different. I feel like every day I get a little bit more clear on my messaging. and I have some kind of lulls where I maybe try something and I'm like, eh, I didn't really feel aligned with that.

I'm gonna try something else. And I'm doing that in every realm of my business. I'm doing that in the realm of my offers, in the realm of how I'm creating content, the format of my content, the messaging of my content. Like it's always an experiment and, and I, people are gonna get sick of me talking about this, but it is always an experiment a hundred percent of the time in every aspect of your business.

So even like, even like big scale, yes. But even super, super tiny, small scale decisions I'm experimenting with. So the email that I sent her in response to her application does not look the same. It's not copy paste from an email I sent to somebody else. It's customized. And I read through it again and I'm like, actually, I would say this a little bit differently.

This time I've got a little bit more clarity on how I frame what we do. You know, it's, it's always changing and you can't get there. Until you just do it and put it on paper and send the email, and then you read back through it the next time you're gonna send the email. Like there's no shortcut to it, there's no growth, 

Julia: there's no self-growth without self-awareness.

Like we need to be doing the things, be aware of how the thing feels, and then when we realize, oh, that wasn't it. Or, oh, I really like that. Now we have the space between where we are and where we want to be. Yeah. But that only happens when we have that kind of awareness and when we would, when we detach from, everything needs to be perfect and instead shift to the idea of like, I'm just practicing

Yeah. I'm just practicing. I'm just experimenting. It gives us that space to then look and be like, well, maybe I do that differently. That is self-awareness and that's how we're gonna go anywhere and have a business that actually feels good and find clients that we actually love working with. 

Jordan: Yeah. And this is the case on a massive scale too.

So this is something we just went through and we're, and we're still working through, and I don't even know if I have all of the context and information and, and have processed it enough to be able to like fully share about it, but I'll do my best in that. We, we were on a very specific path with the business that we were growing, the type of business, the size of business, the structure, the offers, all of the things, like I, I had a very clear goal and I started building it and we started getting the clients and we started working with them and we were scaling the team and we were building the org structure and doing all of this.

And it wasn't till we were fully immersed in it that I could look and see, mm, nope, this isn't, this isn't actually the offer. Clients don't like it. I don't like it. This has way more cost than I'm comfortable with, carrying in order to deliver it in this way. So, That is kind of terrifying to, to be like, wow, well I already made all the investments and all the decisions and built the infrastructure and now here we are and I'm looking back and being like, Nope, this isn't it, and we're gonna have to tear this thing down.

it doesn't mean we have to shut the business down. It just means that we're not on the path that we were on and our vision, at least my vision, which is probably the thing that matters the most about this business, my vision for where we're going is night and day different from where it was six months ago.

Jordan: And that's a weird, messy middle to navigate and to walk back decisions and investments. Not necessarily investments but kind of investments into people. Especially for us, it's our team. Walk back some of those decisions and try a new thing, but there's no way we would've known that without trying it, you know?

So sometimes it's big, sometimes it's how you word an email. Sometimes it's how you structure your business. . Mm-hmm. . 

Julia: But it really is, you won't know it until you try. Yeah. And I think that that's one of the, that is, I mean, if any entrepreneur should have anything embroidered on a pillow, , it's, you don't know until you try.

You don't know until you give the offer. You don't know until you say it out loud in front of somebody who's in a potential buying situation. Okay, yes. That, that felt good. That it, it is so scary because you need to be doing it out loud in order to know is this working or not? Because again, back to that thing, I need to know if this is physically possible.

yes, you can have the business going, but some of. , the trips and flaws and things that feel like, no, that's not getting me with the right kind of clients or whatever. That stuff doesn't come to light until you're doing it. Yeah. You never would've been able to think through some of those unintended consequences of things until you're in it, and then you can start to recognize the pattern.

Jordan: Yeah, and, and it's not all bad. I mean, there, there's definitely some really cool shifts and pivots that we've done because of what we've learned and changes that we've made in our process, changes that we've made in all kinds of things in the business because we went through that. It's not all bad. Like there were definitely some good things that came from it.

but yeah, you, you, I mean, this isn't really necessarily related to finding clients, it's just, it's just more generally about trying things. And I will say that because we have. because we have a more diversified approach to our marketing. I think that's kind of, that has given some, some comfort to me personally on, well, we didn't have all of our eggs in one basket necessarily, because we can turn ads on for something else, or we can go and, you know, continue networking or making connections, or I can continue talking about the same stuff that I'm talking about, but the pitch at the end is different, you know?

Jordan: Mm-hmm. . So like, it's not that we hadn't, we hadn't, I guess pigeonholed ourselves in, in terms of like how we were finding all of our clients. Like maybe if we were solely doing referrals, that might have actually been a bad thing for us because we shifted so drastically in our offers. 

Julia: So, how do you see yourself going forward?

How do you think things will look for you as far as finding clients moving forward? . 

Jordan: I don't actually think it's changing much. in terms of like the buckets, like the, the main buckets of where clients are coming from, I think will continue to be like organic content that we're putting out on whatever platform we're putting it out on.

and like nurturing our list and our current people. because like I said, like it's the same, we have the same ideal client. We're just offering them something different, you know, like it's packaged differently. And so organic content for sure. Podcast, email marketing, Instagram showing up on Instagram, on stories and also, you know, reels and all the shit there.

Jordan: But, that will keep being a thing. We may bring Facebook groups back at some point. It's kind of been on my list of, of something to look at investing in again, but it's a time thing. you know, I, I only have so much bandwidth. My team only has so much bandwidth. We only have so much. Money, resources to invest in people doing things, you know, so it hasn't made the top of the list right now.

so that's kind of like one side of things. The, the other thing, and I'm happy to dive into more of that, but the, the other big bucket is always gonna be ads. Like we have, I think I have three different ads running right now. One to our service guide, one to our master, straight to our mastermind sales page and application.

Jordan: And then, one to our freebie, our client onboarding freebie that has a trip wire that brings in the majority of our leads, essentially for free because of how well it converts. and that will continue to be a thing and, and those ads will get turned on probably by the time this podcast comes out. one or more of those will maybe be turned off or be, be shifted to a different offer, you know, so that'll always be a thing.

And then, connections, networking. Referrals that will always continue to be a thing. So we have a referral incentive for any of our clients or our, people who we partner with as referral partners for our high ticket services. People get a $500 one-time incentive for sending clients our way if they book and stay on.

and then we have an affiliate program for our digital products and our membership. That's 20% for anyone who signs up for that. So like, that's there and that's a base level. and then on the more, on the more like actual networking side of things, it's me prioritizing being in groups of people this year.

Jordan: So last year that was a mastermind. This year, I don't know what it is, I haven't decided yet, and I'm looking at options. But, it'll be some type of group, whether it's like a membership or a mastermind or something. But that'll always be a th a thing because again, back to basics. And I know that it works.

Julia: So for someone who's like just starting out, oh, as an aside, Instagram really thinks that we should work together. I've been getting your ads a lot. Oh, nice. . I'll often get it right after I watched your story too, and then I'm like, what? Jordan's here again looking beautiful . I'm like, oh, that's an ad though.

So if someone's just kind of starting to dabble in this, right? Let's, let's speak to people at different stages of their business. Yeah. So someone's just getting started and they're looking at trying to figure out how to network. Maybe they've been in the online space and they've kind of been going it alone.

They're trying to figure out how they find a group or looking for a mastermind or something like that. What is someone, what do, what is some of the criteria that you look for or remember looking for at that stage of your 

Jordan: business? Yeah. this definitely evolves so. , but, but what is, what stays fairly consistent for me is two things.

I, when I'm investing into some type of group, especially a mastermind, but even a membership, I ideally wanna be around people who kind of like inspire me and challenge me a little bit. I don't wanna be the biggest business in the room, you know? and that can sometimes come in conflict with the second thing.

But for the most part, I'm not looking to invest my time into an energy and, and, attention into a group where, I can't be inspired by the people who are also in the room. Like I wanna be stretched. That, that's always really important for me when I'm investing in something that's group, because I wanna see, I wanna see what's possible that I maybe haven't thought of, or haven't wrapped my head around either financially or, Otherwise.

So that's one thing that I personally look for. I, I also, it's, it, it's like a non-negotiable. I also look for groups where my ideal clients are , because it doesn't really make a ton of sense for me to be in the room connecting with people who aren't a good fit for what I'm selling. Not because like my main, my main in like, motivation for joining the group doesn't have to be getting clients, but it, it needs to be a potential opportunity because again, like I have a limited bandwidth, I have very limited time and limited resources, and so I need to make sure that I'm investing in things that make sense.

And so those are my two personal non-negotiables. Other people probably have different ones, but I think those are really important and have always served me well when I've decided to invest in groups like that.

what do you look for? 

Julia: So now let's just go into the weeds on that. Yeah, let's do it. Go for it. So if you're looking at a mastermind versus a membership, where would one of those things fit for you? 

Jordan: Hmm. What do you mean? Where would it fit? 

Julia: So like where might something strike you as a membership versus where might something strike you like, oh no, I'd like a mastermind to be working on this, or, yeah, a membership would probably 

Jordan: work for me on that.

so we've talked some about this around like the types of support that I need in my business, and one is like one-on-one more emotional support, which I get from you, and I don't look for that type of support in other places. So, that's like taken care of. The other type of support is like business strategy and, connections more, more specifically to business and referrals and clients and.

Jordan: I think either I, I think it can come from a mastermind or a membership. For me, the difference is that a mastermind is typically higher cost, more, more support, so more intimate, you know, group calls, and deeper support from whoever's leading the group. A membership feels like it should be lower cost and a little bit less hands-on in terms of the support that's offered.

there of course are massive ranges on costs here on, on both sides. So like, I've been part of a membership that was $7 a month. Our membership is $300 a month. So like there are very different types of memberships and typically the price is gonna reflect to. What's included? Like for us, I, I'm on a call with the people in our membership almost weekly.

and we have, you know, over a dozen calls a month. So like that's a very different type of membership than you getting listed in a directory as like the main perk, which is I think what the $7 one was, you know, so it's, there, there, is a con, a wide continuum, even just within membership and then also within Mastermind, I think masterminds can range anywhere from typically, you know, $500 minimum per month up to three K plus, you know.

so there's, there's just a lot of, a lot of variability. I'm not in a mastermind right now and will probably be prioritizing more membership style support in this year because I've decided to invest on the business strategy side of things with a one-on-one consultant and mentor this year. So that's where my, that's where my, my energy and focus and money is going for that type of support.

Jordan: And I think a mastermind would kind of muddy that. I'm a big proponent of not having too many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to your business. So you don't, you don't wanna have a coach that's working on you with business strategy or, or, or a consultant and then also go pee part of a, a member or a mastermind who that person has a different opinion and then also be in something else.

Like, it's just, that's too much. 

Yeah. Because you're 

Julia: gonna, you're going to get conflicting advice. Yes. But then you're also going to lose your. your gut instinct too, because now you're crowding out , you're crowding out your own voice with all these other voices and it just is going to give you analysis paralysis.

Yeah. You're going to feel stuck. Totally. So some of the questions then that people, it sounds like should be asking themselves when they're looking for this kind of, kind of situation for networking is, how is it going to stretch you? So how is it gonna show you what's possible with your business by connecting with these other businesses?

Is this where my ideal clients are spending their time? And if not, then you need to look for someplace that they are spending their time. And then also getting clear on what kind of support you are actually looking for before you decide on one of one of these groups. I know we've talked about before, emotional support in a group setting is difficult.

Mm-hmm. To find mm-hmm. . So if you're finding that that is, what you're looking for, that's probably not the time to consider networking, because you also want the ability, if you are going to be in a group setting for that, I think it's really important that you allow yourself to be honest with, with everyone in the group in transparent, so that way you can get the most out of the experience for yourself.

You deserve to get that kind of support if you're in that space. and thinking if you were in a spot where you're like, no, this is a networking opportunity, I think you're automatically going to have that little bit of a wall where you don't really wanna let people know. what you're struggling with, how you're feeling about stuff necessarily, when you're also looking and being like, so do you wanna work with me, yes or no?

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's, it's really important to know what kind of support you're getting there, what you're looking for, and then that will kind of give you the path of like, you know, is this a good way? What would be beneficial for me to connect with networking? And is that in a mastermind or in a membership 

Jordan: moving forward?

Yeah. Yeah. You definitely need to have that clarity, on like the core purpose, the main priority, purpose of whatever the investment is. because that is gonna, that is gonna impact how you're showing up. Like you said, you don't want, you don't wanna be there trying to get clients and then feel like, you can't share the things or ask the things you wanna ask because you're guarded.

For sure. Yeah. Which again, is why I recommend doing that stuff. one-on-one, , you know? yeah. , I wanna, I wanna, I'm sure you've got more questions, but I wanna take it back to email for a second because, um mm-hmm. , I get a lot of questions, just like tactical questions around how I approach my email marketing.

And so I'd love to like, touch on that a little bit, because I think there's a lot of ways to do this. So, I just had this question yesterday from a client and the way that we approach email marketing is maybe like, like, I think there's an element of kind of like standard, recommendation following to this, but it's also a little bit different.

So our structure is supposed to be three emails, a. , one of those emails a week is about our podcast. Typically the run with slightly different cadence right now because of how the, the drop dates, are scheduled. But one email ish a week is for podcasts just to say, here's the new episode. And, the goal of that email, because this got brought up to isn't necessarily to have clickthroughs, this is more to potentially have someone click through who hasn't listened to the podcast before.

So like, I'm hoping for a little bit of that, but also just to remind people that we have a podcast and if they are a listener, they're probably not gonna click in my podcast email. They're gonna go straight to the app and open it up and listen right there. So we, we typically see lower click through rates on our podcast, emails and, and that's okay.

And I think pretty standard and typical. . the other email that we send every week is a, is a newsletter. We have a, Hey, hey, Friday newsletter that we send out every week that is more like nurture value, here's what's on my mind type of content, which is I think, really important. And, and the, the goal with that is typically engagement.

So we get a lot of replies. We get a lot of people like mentioning to it to me if they, you know, talk to me on social media or our current clients in, in some capacity. So it's more, that is more like an ongoing engagement thing, not necessarily click through either. Now the sales piece, usually there should be some type of like sales email, as our third email during the week.

But, I like to approach sales emails a little bit differently in that I send out sales emails whenever the hell I want to, and I'm okay with that. So that means sometimes there's two in a week. That means sometimes there's none and, and it just is kind of like, It's more on a whim, whatever I feel like selling.

Cuz sometimes I'll look at the sales email that's been written for me to send and I'll be like, yeah, no, I don't wanna send that today, , you know? so I think we approach it a little bit more flexibly in terms of how we're selling to our list. but we're, but I am consistently selling to my list and I am not afraid to sell to my list.

And I think that that's really important that people can forget that they have to sell to their list. That's the purpose of it. The ultimate purpose of it is that you, you paid in one way or another for those people to be on, on your list. And if you're not selling to them, you're doing yourself and them a disservice, you know?

and I don't know, I could go on like 10 other, like tangents about this, so maybe I'll wait and see if you have any questions and, and wanna take this a different way before I keep going on a monologue. . 

Julia: No, I think you're good to go. My one thing on that is that usually when people are like, nobody's buying or like, you know, peop people aren't signing up, I'm not getting my clients.

typically it's a matter of like, you need to be selling to them way more. Yeah. You probably need to be giving them way more opportunities to buy because when we're selling something, we suddenly forget how we behave. I, I don't know if you've ever noticed, if anybody is on the Old Navy email list, how many times a day they hit you with unlocked.

Julia: You've got this, you've got that. And I noticed them all, but I'll maybe click on like one or two of them before I'm like, oh yeah, I'll do it. But they're sending tons of everybody's email. Inboxes are, we're getting loaded. So sell it more. Sell more. If people aren't doing something, sell. more. That's like, like you just said, that's what this is for.

Yeah. Everybody knows what it's 

Jordan: for. Go for it. Yeah. Al almost no one listening is selling enough to their list. No. Yeah. and that's kind of what, that's something I was gonna touch on is, it's funny because I, for our, not the very first time we launched our mastermind, cuz everyone who's listened to that episode about that knows that we canceled that launch.

But the, the very first official time that we actually launched our mastermind and we went all in, I was nine months pregnant. but we went all in on this launch and I had someone on my team write me a launch sequence and I think it was like 7, 8, 9 emails.

They were pre-launch emails, nurture emails, value, and then some like traditional sales emails. You know, here's early bird deadline, all that, like very traditional. This stuff works, but in the moment, it could have been my crazy pregnant brain. I don't know what it was. I was like, no, I'm gonna email my list more.

I'm gonna e like, I, I just, I kept having all of these thoughts that I wanted to share with people and like the why behind the why they should join and what was included. And just like generally had a massive amount of content that I wanted to send out. I think I sent close to 30 emails during that launch.

You did? I did. You did . I did. I sent a shit ton of emails and a lot of them were like straight sales, but a lot of them were also like value nurture with a sell at the end. And I mean, most people know we had like a 70 k launch, which I think for us was, was really successful and I think for most people would be pretty successful who are listening to this, like a 70 K launch is fantastic.

. And I honestly, I, I would, I would not do that any differently. Some people would be like, oh my gosh, that's way too many people, or way too many emails to send out to my people. But, it worked. And I, I would much rather like lay it all out there and not leave anything on the table and just be like, and know that I had gone all in.

rather than feeling like, oh, I'm emailing people too much. Oh, like people are unsubscribing. I don't give a shit. I get like one, like half a percent of my list unsubscribes every time I send out an email. I don't care. I don't care. , I don't care. , 

Julia: yeah. We really have to let go of the caring on a lot of things.

It's not personal most of the time when no, again, look at your own behaviors before we get into the massive storytelling mode of like, I'm the most annoying business owner on the planet and every, nobody wants to hear from me and all this stuff before we go down this path. It's really important to look at how do you behave?

How are you acting online? How many times do you watch someone's story when they're selling something before you're like, oh, you know what? I am kind of curious about that. I have followed people for years. Yes. And just recently been like, Hmm, that's what they do. Like, please, . Yes. I, I'm seeing all of that stuff all the time, but I'm not connecting it.

Same thing with emails. I get emails all the time. Do I read them all? Absolutely not. So nobody, I don't 

Jordan: read any emails. I don't read emails at all. No. The 

Julia: greatest day of my life, I read my client emails and then everything else is just like, okay, what's going on? The greatest day of my life was fake writing.

How to do that. Is colon unread thing on Google, on Gmail and just resetting my entire, everything's automatically read. That's what I 

Jordan: No. Stopped. Yes, yes. . Okay. You're gonna have to like link a tutorial on what the hell you're talking about in the show notes because I, I don't know, it gives me a little anxiety.

I handle, I have two email inboxes that I actively, well, three probably, but I have my like business email that I personally use all the time. And then I have my personal email. This is like excludes my like business main email, the hello app, whatever. So I've got these two emails. My approach with my business email inbox, which is where I really live and interact 95% of the time, is I refuse to have more than 50 emails in my inbox period.

Jordan: And most of the ones that are in there are like actively things that I'm working on and cycling through, and then they get filed away when I'm done. Yeah, my personal email has like 20 or 30,000 emails and it, most of which are unread. Yes. It's totally, it's like no man's line. I don't go there. It makes me uncomfortable.

I open it to like look at one thing. If somebody sent me something there and then I get rid of it cuz it stresses me out. 

Julia: Yeah. Somehow my brain can sort through like all of the, and be like, oh, that's a name that I know, like in my personal email. But yeah, I just go and I do the, the search command select all as red and that way that's how I zero out my inbox.

Some people I'm sure are genuinely zeroing their inbox, not me, but No. Yeah, I told you the other day I was, I was like, I think if you knew how I ran my own personal business, 

Jordan: it would be. awe 

Julia: and horror. and I. That makes me, that makes me believe even more with the emails . 

Jordan: That is so funny. so yeah, 

Julia: most people are not selling enough.

You have to think about your own behavior and then just release how personal it feels. Mm-hmm. . Because even if they unsubscribe, if, if you are selling, if you are selling something and then you're selling it a lot and then someone un unsubscribes because you were selling something, they weren't going to buy from you.

No. So it's okay. Yeah. It's really 

Jordan: Okay. Embrace the unsubscribes. Yes. Embrace them. Yeah. They're great. If you're getting lots of unsubscribes, it means you're emailing enough. . . 

Julia: Go for now. It's perfect. . 

Jordan: Yes. Oh my gosh. Well, I don't think I have anything else. I think I've like totally exhausted my how to find client knowledge.

Okay. And opinions. All right. It's not all knowledge. Yeah. Most of it is just like actually, ranty opinions. Yeah. I think, you know, 

Julia: finding clients shifts, it should be able to shift. I know in my own business about 75% of my business, maybe higher is, is referrals. And I'm very thankful for that. I really appreciate it.

and sometimes it can make it feel a little like, oh, what would happen if people stopped referring? What would I be doing? But, w we all figure it out because again, getting back to the basics of you would find people, you would just continue to find people the same way that you found the people. So if you're at the beginning of your business and you're like, how am I gonna find people?

Julia: I don't know what to do. You just gotta get out there. You really just have to start talking about it. Yeah. I see this with clients all the time where everything feels very, very murky until they have one conversation with a real life person about their business, and then they're like, oh my gosh, yeah, now I know how to express my niche.

Or I'm doing this or I'm doing that. And then it all starts to flow. yeah, you just, you just have to do it. And I've been really hovering around this quote lately of, did you fail or did you quit? And that's how I feel with finding clients where it's like, did we, it wasn't really, not finding really nothing worked or did we just decide to.

Cut off before we, we kept going and call it quit, you know? Yeah. So, same thing with finding those clients. Just keep going. You will find them. You will find them. It's just a matter of talking about it, being clear on what you offer and going for it. And if you're in the middle and you're like, oh, stuff's slowing down.

Now you could be looking at is it time to make an investment in yourself, in your business, in your network? Are you looking at ads? Like you have some different options at that point, but, you're never helpless when it comes to finding clients. You know what to do. It's just a matter of. probably being a little louder.

Mm-hmm. about what's 

Jordan: going on. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, probably, I mean, I think it comes down to actually doing it and trying things, sticking with those things that you're trying for a long enough time to see any kind of results or to be able to assess it. and then, and then when you're able to stacking other options on, because I, I will say like for sure at the beginning, it's stressful because you don't have all of that data and you are trying different things and you're in that, you're in that phase where you may not be receiving the results on your actions, but it will happen.

You again, you just have to stay consistent and give it enough time. And there's no, there is no set time on that, you know? so don't quit too soon. But then once you're able start to stack those things on, and I, I will tell you it is, it is comforting. It is, it's a totally different experience of running a business when you have multiple avenues that work for you and you can have this really diversified approach to finding clients.

 it, it's comforting. I, I, I mean, that's the only way that I have to explain it, but you, you, you can't shortcut that. You gotta go through the messy of investing the time and the energy and or the money into trying the things and, and building out that stack of, of strategies. No way around it. Yeah.

Jordan: Anytime we 

Julia: have everything all in on one thing, we start to feel trapped. Mm-hmm. . So you can give yourself the favor of, Nope, we're gonna, we're gonna try multiple things. And the benefit with that too is you're reaching different audiences. You'll have different people in. A live networking situation than you may have connected with on your Instagram or that you would've gone through Facebook ads and all of the things help you because the way that you're communicating with your Facebook ads, maybe you're realizing, oh, there's a real trend in what people are saying here.

It's, it's getting me in front of different people. Now. You know how to speak to your audience in a different way, in real life. You know how to speak to those problems or recognize, oh, hey, I do know how to help with that because I'm seeing tons of people do it and this is how we're working on it. So all of the pieces click together.

but it allows you to just be better at every area of your life when you let yourself kind of 

Jordan: spread out. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Totally. Cool. All right. See ya. Let's go get some plants. . Yeah. Have fun with it. Try things. You got this. . Yeah. Is that a good way to end? Throw 

Julia: spaghetti at the wall. . We suck at endings.

Jordan: Ah. Till next time. . 

Julia: Oh, are we still going? I don't know. so 

Jordan: long.