Easy Scaling with Jordan Schanda King

Finding Clients | Aligned visibility and sales with Anna Rapp

January 08, 2023 Jordan Schanda King / Anna Rapp Episode 31
Easy Scaling with Jordan Schanda King
Finding Clients | Aligned visibility and sales with Anna Rapp
Show Notes Transcript

For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode31

This episode is part of our mini-series all about finding clients. Tune in as we discuss all the ways to find clients in the online space and get real about what works and what doesn’t. You’ll hear practical strategies and transparent conversations about where clients really come from so that you can hopefully find more clients and just feel normal about where you’re at now.

In this episode, we’re talking with Anna Rapp. Anna is a Business Mentor + Mindset Coach, mama to two and founder of the Heart Centered Entrepreneur Podcast and Community. Anna lives in San Diego but coaches ambitious women internationally to help them launch and grow their service based businesses so that they can have wild, profitable, monetary success... but without compromising what matters most to them like their values and showing up for their family.

Topics discussed:

  • Shamelessly talking about what you do vs. being afraid of looking silly
  • Giving a lot of free value
  • Stacking and layering marketing strategies
  • Confidence in selling comes from serving your clients well
  • Leaning into marketing strategies based on personality
  • Not outsourcing your content until you’re ready
  • Empowered hiring vs. throwing money at problems
  • Picking one visibility and one sales strategy
  • Sticking to your strategies for 90 days
  • Going full out to get data instead of giving up too soon
  • Keeping your mindset in check while launching
  • The importance of urgency when selling
  • Making sure that you actually like your offers
  • It’s okay if you want to do something totally different
  • Do what works for you AND your clients
  • Differentiating between internal and external visibility

Top tip or advice for finding clients:

  • Make sure you’re aligned with your offers.That’s the biggest thing that doesn't get talked about enough when it comes to signing clients.

Connect with Jordan Schanda King:

Connect with this week’s guest, Anna Rapp:

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Finding Clients |  Aligned visibility and sales with Anna Rapp

Jordan: Hello. Hello. Welcome to our miniseries all about finding clients. This is a fun one. There are so many ways to find clients in the online business space, and what we're gonna do in this series is. tell stories, share tips, dive into practical and tactical strategies for finding clients, what works, what doesn't work, and really take a transparent, open approach to talking about where clients are really coming from, so that hopefully you can apply some of this to, to your own business and also so that you can just feel normal , because there is no one way to do it.

So I hope you enjoy this series.

All righty. In this episode, we are chatting with Anna Rapp. Anna is a business mentor and mindset coach. Fun fact, Anna was my very first life coach, and then eventually my very first business coach. Anna is amazing. She is one of the kindest, most heart-centered people that I've ever met, and so not a coincidence that she is the founder of the Heart-Centered Entrepreneur podcast and community.

She's also a mom of two. She lives in San Diego, and she coaches women internationally to help them launch and grow their service-based businesses so that they can have wild. Profitable monetary success, but without compromising what matters most to them, like their values and showing up for their family, which I can totally vouch for.

Anna is a freaking rockstar at this. So we're gonna talk all about how to find clients and. We get deep into the weeds on launching, your mindset when it comes to launching. we talk about different organic strategies. We talk a little bit about, paid ads and how we've used that in for easy scaling as we have grown, and just generally her approach to finding clients and making it easy.

So I hope you enjoy this conversation.

Welcome. Welcome everyone. Welcome back, Anna, to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Yes. Okay. We're gonna talk about how to find clients, something that everyone wants to know. Like, I mean, what are we doing if we're not finding clients? Right? So, take us back to how you found your first or your first couple of clients.

Anna: love this and I especially love that you're. Series because I remember when I first started my online business, like this is what I was Googling like, and I remember like listening to other women's stories and so I think this is helpful. Okay, so on a practical level, my very first clients as a life coach came

I was working my therapy day job. I actually did not know about Facebook groups or really tons about social media, the online space. And so I started doing, workshops at a local coffee shop. And I literally like printed posters on my printer and like pinned them up around town. , do you know this? 

Jordan: No, I don't.

But this is great 

Anna: and I think like this is what we need to be willing to do. Whether even if you don't do that, like now the online's like, I think as women we're not willing to like look silly and like just like we're not willing to go all in and be visible in that way. And I think I would just. This is what I wanna do, so I'm just gonna like do this, right.

Put up posters. I also told like all of my friends and family and so. That was like my first bit of like free stuff and how that transitioned to paying clients is eventually my friend told me like, Hey, did you know you could open a Facebook group? And so I opened a Facebook group, about 80 people joined, mostly my friends in network and I did like a free challenge in there.

And then I shut the group down because I didn't know that you're supposed to leave it open. But then I had their emails, so I emailed them and invited them to a coaching group and that was my first. money as 

Jordan: a life coach. Wow. I wish I knew where I came into your world. in, in this evolution because it wasn't a poster.

It had to have been early. It wasn't a poster. Yeah, it was something. It was probably Facebook, probably. I wonder if someone maybe like invited me to your group or something. Yes. Somewhere along the line of that to try to dig that up. I should try to dig that up. That would be funny. Oh my gosh. Okay. I love this.

Well, , obviously the way you find clients is probably different now . So talk us through how, how that evolved. Was there like kind of this middle phase or did it kind of go straight from Facebook group to still Facebook group and it was like that's what set you 

Anna: off? I love that question. I mean, in some ways it's like almost the same in the sense that like, I'm not putting up flyers anymore, but.

I like shamelessly talk about what I do, you know, and I think the, like key to organic, like everything I do is organic marketing is like, primarily my leads now come through still value, but most of it I'm doing all online, right? My podcast, Instagram, Facebook group are the big three, my email list. so I just give like a lot of value.

And I also do a lot of like using my network, though it's not really my personal network anymore. It's like my business network, right? Like when I launched my book, I told my list like, I need your help. Like this. Like I think I do a lot of, giving value and then asking my audience to help me out because of all the value I give them.

connecting relationship. Like that's still a hundred percent my marketing strategy. 

Jordan: Yeah, let's talk me through like, because you mentioned podcast, Facebook group, Instagram, which is like a beautiful, very diverse, but also interconnected, like bucket of strategies. Right? But I'm sure it didn't start there so, How did it start and when did you decide that it was time to stack on or layer on some of these other things and how did they like dovetail together?

Anna: First of all, can we just, how question, how brilliant you are to say stack on, like that's the whole point, right? I think we see like women in the online space and if we're just starting out, we try to like do like nine platforms at once. But that's like the fastest way to burn out, right? So I really started with my Facebook group and I only did my Facebook group.

I did not do Instagram. I did not have a podcast. Like I really figured out how to like, refine that. Then I stacked on Instagram, then I stuck on the podcast and kind of like layered it from there. and like if I was building my business from scratch, that's a hundred percent what I would do. Again, I would pick one thing.

and then later 

Jordan: on. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So when you look at those, when you look at those three things, plus any of the other ways that clients come to you, like what does the breakdown look like there? Like do you have a sense of kind of where the bulk of your clients come from? , 

Anna: yes. Things like that. Yes. That's a great question too because I think I neglected to say the other part of my clients come from return clients.

I have a huge percentage of clients that return to me and also refer me, and so PE a lot of times my clients are hap, I always say like the work you do with your clients is the best marketing ever because number one, you feel good about yourself, so you're gonna feel confident selling your service.

Knowing that like you're doing good work on the backend, but also when your clients are happy, they're gonna return to you. And so a lot of times my clients will either send me another paying client or they'll just spread the word and someone will join my Facebook group, listen to my podcast, and then eventually become a client.

So I would say the breakdown is probably like 50 50. It's like pretty high as far as like how many. Clients come from a referral or through repeat or something like that. I would say the other 50% is people that just organically are finding my content. and I would say probably it's a little bit heavier on the podcast right now because that's where I go deepest.

And then I would say second would be split between Instagram and Facebook. 

Jordan: Mm mm-hmm. . Okay. That's great. I love this. I, and part of why I wanted to do this series is just to, Demonstrate the breadth of options here. Like there's so many different ways to do it, and I know that you are like pretty much solely organic, right?

I think you've maybe dabbled in some ads in the past. and for us, I don't know what the percentage is, I'd have to pull it up, but, we'll talk about it probably later this month on my episode with Julia. But we have a heavy ad strategy, heavy paid ad strategy, and that's like really, really worked for us.

And so I think it's cool that it's. Whatever. You're like so many ways. Yeah. Yeah. I like the ads cuz I'm impatient. Like I, I'm an impatient person. Like I, that's okay. I accept that about myself and I have decided to build my business in a way that like supports me as I am so I do 

Anna: ads. Think you . Here's the other thing, Jordan, I'm curious about your opinion on this.

I would also say ads is a good lead generation strategy, if you like. It's, I feel like it's almost a personality. , right? Mm-hmm. , like for people that like tech, like data, like operations, right? Are a little bit more like left brained. It makes sense to do, marketing strategies where you're behind your dashboard, like where you're talking, peeking out about that stuff.

For me, that just does not turn me on. You know what I mean? And so it makes sense for me to lean into marketing where I'm not having, like, I think it's just about working your genius, right? Yes. And so, It makes sense for you to lean into ads if you enjoy that more data-driven side, right? 

Jordan: Yes, for sure. And like another great example of this in a contrast, I think is like your Facebook group.

I have tried to do Facebook groups. I hate it. I hate it. I splice it. Yeah. So that's not gonna work for you. It's not gonna work. It's not gonna work. Cause I have no desire to go and show up. I'm 

Anna: not For me, I did dabble in Facebook ads a little bit and even had someone doing it for me, but like every time I even went to log in to the fricking, I'm like, it makes me sick to be in here.

Like, oh, I like. 

Jordan: I'm in there all the time. I'm just like, I'm gonna go in there and like play around with stuff. . 

Anna: And so did you, this is such a good example too, that like neither is right nor wrong, right? Yeah. Is like Jordan, like for me, I'm like, I will live in my Facebook group. I will go like live 24 7 and hang out with girls in there like, oh, oh, I love, I should share this with my group.

Like, so I think it's just like really honoring your personality. Yes. And then that way you're building a business where you don't just like, I think as we grow in scale, , what are we doing? The things where we're gonna enjoy our client work and we're gonna enjoy our marketing, right? Mm-hmm. , because if we don't enjoy it, it's just gonna be really hard to keep doing that, 

Jordan: right?

Yes. Yes. And like, I feel like this is kind of talked about, but kind of not like deeply talked about enough. Yes. Like of course, don't do all the things, of course. Like, do what feels good. Yes. But what does that actually mean? And, and so another great example. I love my podcast. So we both have podcasts. I'm sure that our approach to podcasting is like extremely different and we could talk about that.

But even just talking about content creation in general. I remember very early on in this business, I was like, I'm not a content marketer. I don't like to create content. I don't wanna do that. I, I have no desire to do that, which is again, why I decided to start my business with ads. I didn't even wait until like, I had this like, fully validated client roster where then I was like, no, I, I was like, we're throwing down ads.

I know this is a good idea. I got two clients. This is a thing. Let's go. Yes. Because I didn't wanna do content. I knew that that was like really draining for me. That's why I didn't like showing up in Facebook groups. I don't do lives on any platform ever. you know, if anybody looks at my Instagram right now, you'll see a ton of reels on there cuz I pay a bunch of people money to like make that shit for me so that I don't have to do anything.

Right. So like, hack what feels good for you? Yes. Like legitimately there is 

Anna: no right or wrong. . Yeah. I love what you said too. Absolutely. Like some things, right? Like it's like a balance, right? Figuring out like what works for my personality, right? What isn't aligned, and then what can I pace? Because I do think that sometimes it's like, well, I don't want to do this, or I don't like this platform, but I know it's best for my business to be on this platform, and so I'm gonna hire someone to do that for me.

Right? I just think as long as we, it's just like this, like fine edge, right? Where we're not just like outsourcing and being like, I don't even wanna look at it, versus like, mm. , I'm willing to outsource it. It's not my favorite thing. I'm willing to be invested enough so that my team feels supported as they're executing for me.

but I dunno. Just what do you think about 

Jordan: that? Yeah, I, I think content in particular is tricky with this because, it. It's, you have to time that, right? I think if you hire, and we experienced this, I hired someone a little bit too early on to help with the organic content and just like content creation in general and I almost didn't have enough clarity on what my like brand and messaging and you know, I was still too much in the experimental phase of my business, I think to really.

outsource that, you know, it, it's, it's different. For me it was different to invest heavily in ads because it was going straight to one funnel. It wasn't like this big, that was already like a proven funnel, right? Like it was there, it was done, yeah. but the content was like, , you know, the person was really relying on me to give input on like the content, like what should they be saying?

And it was this all, it was constantly this back and forth of like, yeah, I wouldn't exactly say it that way or like, but, but I couldn't really give them guidance cuz I didn't even have the clarity yet. So we just started investing in organic content creation and like content marketing and were like almost a year and a half into the business.

And so previously to that, We weren't doing that really at all. You know, it was like when I felt called to go post a story or an Instagram post, like that's not a strategy. so again, it, it's, it's stacking, it's all about stacking and waiting till you have. all the information that you need for making those big investments.

so not waiting for all of the information for you to take action on something, cuz I'm big on experimentation, but, but for those bigger investments, I think it's really important to make sure you've got like a clear plan and strategy and clarity before you. Throw down a 

Anna: bunch of money. Definitely a hundred percent.

And for, to, for me too, I think like early on in some of my business hires, as I've hired team members within my business, I realized, like in hindsight, I was almost like hiring them to like rescue me, right? Or like, so like mm-hmm. . And I think we just can't, I mean, yes, our, our team can help us and support us, whether it's a coach, an O B M, like whatever, right?

They're there to help us, but at the end of the day, we're the still the c e o. And so it's just making sure you're hiring from that empowered energy and not from. This is a problem. I feel powerless, and I'm just gonna throw money at 

Jordan: the problem. Yeah. Yes. A thousand percent. Okay. So talk to me a little bit more about finding clients, what you think people need to know or what's worked for you.


Anna: Okay. So d does this, like people that I'm, I'll answer it this way, right? People I'm gonna answer this to, for someone that. Has had clients before, maybe has some clients, but is not fully booked, right? Yes. Perfect. cuz I think there's like a few things depending on the frame, but we're gonna assume that you've had some clients, right?

Or you have some, you're not fully booked. Maybe you've had some before, but you don't have more. I think like my favorite thing around this is picking one strategy, one visibility strategy, one sales strategy, and working it for 90 days. and then assessing the data on it, right? Like, how am I visible a k a?

It's usually like one platform, right? Or one way that you're exposing yourself to new humans, right? Not just showing up in your own audience, right, in front of your own podcast, like, but exposing yourself to humans outside of your current bubble, your current email list, right? How am I exposing myself to new humans, number one.

Number two, how am I, what's my sales strategy? picking one clear sales strategy, whether it's like discovery calls, right, or whatever it is for you, doing it for 90 days, having a really clear metric so that you're taking action each week and then at the end of 90 days assessing is that working. , can I keep going at it or is it not working?

And for most of my clients, I find they're not actually doing anything for 90 days, right? Mm-hmm. , they're trying something for two weeks, it's not working, and they give up, right? Yes. They feel discouraged. So I think it's just that length of time that helps you see and assess things. Mm-hmm. ? 

Jordan: Yeah. Think I love this.

I I love this so much because, Very much relates to a bunch of things that I see in myself and in my clients for sure around like shiny object syndrome and around like launch jitters and all of these things that come up all of the time and. , the only way to combat them is to pick something and stick with it until you, like if, if you get some like really solid data that it's not working or it's not a good idea, absolutely.

Or absolut's not aligned or it doesn't feel good or whatever, like yeah, for sure you can change your mind. But for the most part, we usually change our mind just because like, The things haven't happened yet. You know, like, wait, it's, I just opened my wait list and now the doors to the wait list closed and I only had one person sign up, so like, I'm not even gonna finish my launch.

Like, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how it works. Like, yes, that's everyone's experience. 

Anna: You know? Yes. And then we continually have these, like we just don't have data and open loops. Like let's say you go through an entire launch, right? And you don't get the results you want. I think it's better to go full out for that whole launch and have that data going into your next launch than like canceling it halfway through and like never knowing.

So even if, yeah, we go for 90 days and it sucks. It's so good. Because I always say like at the end of the launch, you either. A ton of money and a ton of clients, or you have a lot of data, right? Yeah. , yes. You have a lot of data. I'm like, that didn't work. That didn't work. But if you don't go full out for 90 days, you have nothing.

You don't have results and you don't have 

Jordan: data, you're just screwed. Yeah. And okay, so I wanna dig into the launching piece a little bit more, but I also just wanna say like more broadly, This applies to everything, and this is a really hard thing to accept. I think as a business owner that the majority of strategies that work take time.

So like most people, if you're gonna work with someone on social media, they're gonna tell you like there's a three to six month ramp up period. You hear them say that, but then three weeks in, you're like, why the hell is no one bought off of all these posts that you've scheduled? You know? Mm-hmm. like we all.

Don't do that. Okay. We all do it. Please don't do it 

Anna: though. Even like Facebook ads, right? Like Yeah, yeah. My, my Facebook ads went live to today. Why don't I have 

Jordan: 900 people buying? Exactly. . Yes. I just talked about this a few weeks ago on the podcast too, because I had posted this reel and then like 30 minutes later and I looked and I was like, what?

Why is this not viral yet? Like that was so. That was a great freaking reel. This should be viral. I was so pissed. And then the next day I had like, I don't know, 30,000 views or something. I was like, okay, well yay. I just had to wait . 

Anna: And you could have deleted, like if you didn't keep your mindset in check, you might have like deleted it or whatever.

Right. And we do this stuff all the time. And in some ways 90 days is a long time. But in other words, it's really not like, no, the entrepreneurship world is like dog years. We need to remember that, right? Like, we're ambitious, we're patient. But like when we remind ourself of like, people in the real, in the, like civilians in the real world, like we are moving at the speed of light, even though it feels like slow to us, right?

Jordan: Yeah. Even 90 days, like that's not very long. It's not that long. That's not that long. Okay. It's not that long, but it's, it's so funny too. I share this all the time and there's some kind of stat about this and I'm not, try gonna try to get it right because I can't remember what it is, but. It's something like 80% of people buy in the last like 48 hours.

Or it's something like, oh my God. Yes. Really extra sounding. You know? It's like that can't be true. That is freaking true. Totally true. Whatever the stat is. Totally true. It's that ridiculous. That or worse. Yeah. . Yeah. It's, it's stupid and, and I mean, I feel like I'm on stuck on repeat telling people this, and even with myself, it's hard.

It's so freaking hard. Yeah. But it's true. Like when we launched our master. like the first, not the first launch, cuz we can get into that. But I changed my mind on that and I canceled that launch, which is okay to do the second time, like the real launch that we went through with. I had a really long launch period, which isn't something that I necessarily recommend, but I was nine months pregnant, when I did the launch, so I had to kind of plan some extra time.

Yes. And so we did the wait list. We did like a very traditional launch, but it was a longer timeframe and I think we had one person. For the wait list, like, and then like actually buy, and then it wasn't until, so it was like a two and a half month launch period. Literally everyone signed up in the last week.

I'm not kidding. No, I Can you imagine a three month launch period with everyone signing up in the last week? I mean, yeah. I can't imagine 

Anna: it, but yeah. But a nightmare if you've never experienced that before, it's like a mind f, right? But I think like the more you launch, you're like, oh. Sense, like there are some patterns and then you, you don't make yourself wrong in the lull.

You know that every launch has this time where like you're talking about it, but like human behaviors, we buy around a deadline, right? Yes. So of course people are gonna buy at the end, even though it's like, yes, really annoying as someone who's selling it. 

Jordan: It is, it is. But yeah, and I think, I don't know, I've, I've gone on some tangents about this, but, no, do it, do it.

Tangent away. Urgency, I think. Urgency gets a bad rap and like people are like, it's not ethical bullshit. Like it's, that's the best like urgency. Fantastic. Urgency. Urgency is the yes. Yeah. Like as your potential client, I need you to tell me when I need to make the time to make the decision, like please give me some urgency.

Otherwise, like it's just one of 5 million things that I'm thinking about that day. I have to have it. 

Anna: I think you should do a whole podcast episode on this because I absolutely agree. I have a few on it myself, and I'm gonna make more because like, I just think there's this messaging in the online space that says like, discounts, incentives, urgency, buzz like that, that's bad.

I'm like, Why, like, like as a busy, like you said, as a busy woman and mama, my to-do list is about a mile long, and so I don't, we're pri continually prioritizing. So when you make an urgency or a deadline, you are helping your clients just bump up that priority and that decision list. You're not forcing them to buy right.

But if they were gonna buy, it's just helping expedite that last buying decision by making a little bit more exciting or time sensitive or fun for them. Yes. Yes. 

Jordan: A million times. Yes. I love this. We like a deadline 

Anna: over here. 

Jordan: We, everyone needs a deadline. Yeah. okay. Per usual, some tangents. I love the tangents , so let's see if we can bring it up back.

I mean, it's all about, it's all adjacent to finding clients, but let's see if we can bring it back to how to find clients. So we talked about, you're kind of in that middle phase. Let's do it backwards and let's go back to, cuz I know you've got some really cool strategies on how to find your first client.

So maybe let's back it up in case there's anyone listening, or in case anyone wants to dabble in some like new ideas on like finding your first client, whether that's your first client in your business or your first client for a new offer. Yes. 

Anna: I mean, you're right. I think this applies to if this is your first client in your current business, like maybe you've had businesses before but you have a new business or maybe.

an existing business, but it's a new offer in this business. Or maybe it's your first time finding a client ever. It all applies. and I think sometimes, especially if we've had several businesses or we, we've been in business, but we're making, we forget these lessons. Mm-hmm. . So I just think it's important to remember if this is a new offer, period.

Anna: The most important thing you can do to find a paying client is to first make sure that you like your. , this sounds really weird, but I can't tell you. I have a course on this. Get and coach, your first client, and basically the first thing we do is really look at what is your, your offer, whether it's a service offer, a coaching offer, right?

Like how much are you charging? What are you calling it? how are you marketing it? What are the deliverables? What are the promises of the program? Right? Looking at those things first and feeling half the time, my clients are like, there's something they're not aligned with. They're neither not aligned with the way they're marketing it.

They're not aligned with like the deliverables. They're like, I wanna sign a client, but I actually kind of don't because I provide X, Y, Z in this package and I don't like provid. It's like . Yeah. You know, like, we do this to ourselves, Jordan, why are we doing that? So just making sure you really like your offer, is the first step.

What are your thoughts on that, Jordan? 

Jordan: Yes. okay. Yeah, definitely. And I too, I have lots of conversations about this and even people will be like, well, I was gonna promote this. I don't really want that type of client. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You just said you don. Want those clients? Why are we promoting that?

Like, why is that a thing? Let's, let's take a step back here and we're not gonna let anybody do that offer with us. Like sometimes it's really hard to say no, especially if it's something that you've sold before and you know, that you maybe can sell. Oof. That's, that's tough. So that's like one thing that could kind of come up on one side.

The other side of it is, and I, I all alluded to this when I mentioned the first time we launched our mastermind. This is exactly what. And this was not a fun process to navigate, but was a critical lesson to learn in that I wasn't aligned with the offer itself and that it was really more the timing of the offer and a little bit of the messaging of the offer.

It was kind of like those two things because I was like three months pregnant, which meant, which meant when I launched the offer, the fulfillment of the. , I was gonna be on maternity leave for part of it. And I, like, I kept coming up and I like couldn't wrap my head around it. And then I would, I would logic my way through it if like, we're gonna figure it out and we can make it work.

And then I would keep coming back to like, oh gosh, that's gonna be a mess. I don't wanna do that. And so I had one person sign up and then I instantly was like, oh my gosh, I do not want more people to sign up for this. Yes. Well that's a red flag. Yes, there is. Your red flag right there is if you don't actually want people to sign up for 

Anna: the office.

Yes. It's hu And I'm so glad that you're sharing this vulnerably Jordan. Like what a gift to your audience that you're sharing this. You know? And I think like for those of. Listen to Jordan's podcast, taking Jordan's stuff like you just are so unique in the online space, Jordan, in that you are willing to be vulnerable and share that, and I think it gives so much breakthrough for people.

but I think it's so common. Like I'll have my clients say like, I haven't signed any clients yet. And then I look at their package and then they have like, maybe it's like a coach and they're doing like a 90 minute session every week with their client and I'm like, wait, how do you like that? They're like, I hate it.

And I'm like, well, have you thought about offering 45 minute sessions? And they're like, oh, I would never do that. My clients can't get results. And I'm like, well, are they getting results with you right now with you hating doing 90 minute. So I think it's like we have this belief that we can't serve our clients and also enjoy our business.

Mm-hmm. , instead of really believing that it's safe for me to design a program so that I like it because when you like your program, your clients are gonna get better results because you're not gonna be a pain in the A. Right? Like, yeah. So I think, like you said, it's just really looking, if I'm having resistance is my, like package alignment I think is the biggest thing that doesn't get talked about enough when it comes to citing clients.

Jordan: Yes. Totally. And like if you think about it, when I think about having a nine to five, like when I used to to work real life jobs, yes. It, it was, I think everyone can like relate to that feeling of like, ugh, I do not wanna do that today. And like, you know, people call in sick because they just don't wanna work.

Like, that is not the vibe that you want in your business. Like, you should literally never experience that, in my opinion, you know? Mm-hmm. . And so I just talked about this. I had a. on like the three pillars of profitability. And one thing that I talked about was Product Suite and your offers and all of that.

And we were talking about this membership that we have called the Accelerator and it is not a traditional membership. And I'm flat out like you get zero content and zero courses from me. If you join this membership, I'm not gonna give you a single freaking resource. Okay. because that's not what you need.

Like, no, and that's not what I wanna do. Like, no, that's not what you need and that's not what I wanna do. And so that's not what this is. I'm not gonna like be educating you on things. I'm gonna get on these calls and I'm gonna answer your questions. Like, that's, that's what works for me and that's what I know is gonna work for you.

And so that's okay if you wanna do something that doesn't make any sense and doesn't look like anybody else's offer, like. That is okay. 

Anna: I mean, can we just like pause right there, pa like that is just truth bomb of the month. Like when you said that Jordan, like my, I felt relief. I'm like, oh God, I do not need another worksheet.

You know, , and this is the thing when we, when we do the program, I mean, I think it's a compromise, right? We wanna like, Do what works for us. We also wanna do what works for our clients. But more often than not, when we make a choice that works for us, it usually works for our client too. Yeah, my, I can bet your booty that that client, that reduced her sessions from 90 minutes to 45 minutes, that that's what her client, her clients don't wanna sit on a 90 minute call every week, you know?

So, no, and like you said, Jordan, when you were like, I'm not gonna do a ton of content. That's what your clients want too. They don't need a ton of content. So I think it's just knowing that, like, like you said, in in the corporate space, we condition ourself that we have to like hate our work and for it to be hard.

So I think as we're creating our offers, sometimes we con, subconsciously make it something that feels awful because we can't possibly fathom that we can make an f ton of money doing what we love. And in a way that feels aligned. Yes. Like it's just like a mind f. It 

Jordan: is. It's so weird. And, and even though I know that and people listening are like, yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

It's really hard to like get out of the habit of it and to even see where you're doing percent. It 

Anna: is. So until you like fine tooth comb, there's like five sections of your offer that I talk about until you fine tooth comb over all of those. It it is, it's like invisible to us. 

Jordan: Right. . So true. I love it.

Okay. Well, the tr, the trick to finding clients is to make sure that you're aligned with your offers. Like yes, agree. A hundred percent. Agree. That's your first step. Anything else 

Anna: you think we need to know? I think then after that, it's just what we talked about earlier, which is the visibility in sales. So I would say like first is the alignment, right?

Offer alignment, and then one visibility strategy. One sales strategy, even if you've been in business forever, if it's a new offer, right? What's the visibility strategy? What's the sales strategy? And am I doing that for 90 days and then next time I launch it, I can always layer on, right? Like maybe this time I'm doing, you know, an online challenge.

Maybe the next time I wanna do a challenge and a wait list. Maybe like, but I think it's just like starting with one and one 90 days, and then you can assess and change up your visibility and sales. 

Jordan: Yes. And I'll add, because I think you have a really cool, cool framing on this that I, that I still use for myself, and that's this differentiation between internal and external vis external visibility.

Yes. Which you kind of like touched on a little bit, but I just wanna like put a finer point on that, that. what you're doing for like your internal audience isn't the same and doesn't serve the same purpose as what you're doing for your external audience. Like getting new people into your audience. You know?

So like for us, our, our external visibility, since we have a heavy strategy on ads, we don't have to do as much there. Yes. But our primary thing is like guest podcasting. Yeah. You know, or even the fact that we have. Guess on this podcast. Like I look at that as an external visibility strategy. but internal is a totally separate thing, and that's more like what is the content that we're putting out to our people, you know?


Anna: Huge. Exactly. So even like you said, nuancing that down for 90 days. Do I like my offer? What am I doing for visibility on the inside? What am I doing for visibility on the outside? What's my sales strategy? So I guess it's almost like three things there. 

Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it. I love it. Okay.

We'll have your info in the show notes. I don't know if you're, you're still running Visible Impact. Let's put that in there because that it is self-study. 

Anna: That's a great program. Oh, perfect. Yeah, it's self-study. People can grab all of the resources for content marketing, all of 

Jordan: that stuff. Love it. That was, that was a great program.

We did some massive stuff during that program when I was in there. 

Anna: Yes. I love it. Like, it's like what? And I, I feel like I created it at a time when it was like fresh for me. So like I love that program to this day. Yeah. 

Jordan: Yeah. Okay, well that will all be in the show notes, ways to find you, all the things.

Anything else you wanna leave 

Anna: us with? I just wanna say Jordan, like I just have to like do a shout out to you. Like if you guys are listening to this podcast and you're like, is Jordan, you know, I listen to the podcast, I love Jordan. Is she that amazing? Behind the scenes, like, yes, I can say like who you are, Jordan.

Like I think in the online space, like we assume. The everyones of integrity, but it's just not the case. But you, Jordan, I think I've been able to see over the years how you have ruthlessly and fearlessly just walked out your business with faith, integrity, intention, and I just wanna say it's such a joy to be connected to you.

Jordan: Aw, thank you. Well, I appreciate it. You've been, you've been a big part of that, so thank you. All right. This was fun. Thanks so much.