For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode21
This episode is part of our mini-series all about failure. Tune in as we discuss how our guests approach failure, the biggest fails they’ve experienced, what they learned, the support they tap into to get through failure and more…
In this episode, we’re talking with Anna Rapp. Anna is a Business Mentor + Mindset Coach, mama to two and founder of the Heart Centered Entrepreneur Podcast and Community. Anna lives in San Diego but coaches ambitious women internationally to help them launch and grow their service based businesses so that they can have wild, profitable, monetary success... but without compromising what matters most to them like their values and showing up for their family.
What comes to mind when Anna hears the word failure:
LESSON. I almost NEVER hit my "business goals" bc I make them so big - but I don't make it mean failure anymore! <3
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Mini-Series - Failure | Setting bigger goals with Anna Rapp
Jordan: Hello. Hello. You are listening to our miniseries all about failure. We're diving into how folks approach failure, the failures that they have experienced, what they've learned from them, how they've gotten support through them, and all kinds of other juicy topics. So let's get to it.
Alrighty. In this episode, I'm chatting with Anna Rap. Anna is a business mentor and mindset coach, and a mama of two. She's also the founder of the Heart Center entrepreneur podcasting community, and she was actually my first life coach and then eventually my very first business coach. So I have known Anna for a very, very, very long time, and she truly, Probably the most heart-centred person I think I've ever met.
So, not a coincidence that that is her business and brand. So she lives in San Diego, and she coaches ambitious women internationally to help them launch and grow their service-based businesses so that they can have wild, profitable monetary success but without compromising what matters most to them, like their values and showing up for their family.
And she is a freaking rockstar at this. I can totally vouch. So what we do is we dive. Failure. We talk all about failure, how to move through failure, how to navigate it, the lessons that you can learn from failure. Anna is great at this. She has a great perspective on how to learn lessons from your failure, what to make it mean, and what not to make it mean.
And so we have, a really fun time here and I hope that you enjoy this conversation.
Welcome. Welcome, everyone. Welcome Anna. I am like maybe more excited about this than usual.
Anna: I am. So I need opportunity to chat with you,
Jordan: Jordan. I'm like, let's do it. Yes. And it's been a while. It's been a while. It's been a whole, we used to chat all the time, but it has definitely been a hot minute.
So we're gonna just like dive right in and start talking about failure. Why not? Yeah. Diving
Anna: into failure on a Tuesday morning, .
Jordan: Let's freaking do it. so I, I asked this, when we were chatting, and prepping for this, this episode is like, what comes to mind when you think about failure? Tell me about that.
what comes to mind is, like, I was just telling a client this, this week I fail. and don't hit my goals way more now than I ever have at any point in my whole life. And, but also I'm happier, more successful, more Abu like. I also don't make myself wrong for it. And so I just love this conversation around our relationship to failing.
Jordan: Yes. Yeah. I mean, for me it's like a constant, so we might as well talk about it and figure out how to navigate it because it's gonna happen and you kinda want it to happen. I don't know. I've gotten kind of like addicted to it, like I want really bad shit to happen in my business. Cuz then, I mean, it means something.
It's gonna happen .
Anna: It does. It means that you're growing. It means that you're, and usually like if you're not failing or if you're not, if you're continually surpassing your goals, it usually means you're not shooting big enough, right? You're not playing big enough. You're not risking, you're not. Putting yourself out there in
Jordan: the big leagues?
Yes. Yes. Okay. So let's, let's dig into how you've evolved in this way, because it sounds like this, this is not necessarily a new thing, but it's different than it was early on. So how did that happen? I think
Anna: it, I feel like the biggest. Thing was like in entrepreneurship, like something changed. Like I think in my corporate life, my corporate career, right?
I primarily was a therapist before I was doing the coaching situation. And I think I, I, I've always been ambitious. I've always been. That way. But I think I always kind of like played it a little safe and I think suddenly entrepreneurship was very exposing in that it doesn't really let you play it safe.
It doesn't really like, you just have to put your ego at the door and be like, I'm gonna look crazy. I'm gonna do, I'm gonna make mistakes, I'm gonna fail. Like, I think it's just the most humbling experience. But if you can surrender to it and then you realize that everyone else is in that too, then it's not so
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. It's interesting because I feel like on one hand I'm like pretty risk averse, but on the other hand that's like such a normal thing that I'm constantly doing all the time. It is like a really weird, entrepreneurship is weird. It's very weird. And, and actually everyone listening probably knows Julia, who is like, Therapist slash life coach slash she calls herself an everything coach and, she talks about risk or about entrepreneurship in terms of like the holder of risk.
Like that's what an entrepreneur is. And that framing has been really, really helpful for me because then when, when I'm. . When I am faced with risk, which is all the time, it's like, oh, well this is my job. This is actually like my job and the defining characteristic of what it means to be an entrepreneur, and I have to be experiencing that, or I'm really not doing the thing.
Anna: I. I a hundred percent agree. I love what you said too about, that you're risk averse, cuz I would consider myself to be risk averse too. Mm-hmm. , but yet here we are. Like what do you think that entrepreneurship sometimes attracts people that are risk averse when it's literally so. Risk like, and I'm like, I will label you, but I will label myself that I'm like a light control freak and like why do you think that, like here we are in entrepreneurship.
What, like, do you think it's just cuz it's the lesson we need to learn? Or like why do you think that is?
Jordan: Oh my gosh. I don't know. I, I honestly, I wouldn't even put the caveat of like light control freak. I'm like a full blown control freak. Like I know that everybody around me knows that. Like, let's be real.
And actually, okay, this is so funny. This is yesterday. I'm, I'm staying with my family right now. We're traveling for the last few months of the year, staying with family and my grandma, she's in her. needed to make her bed. Needed to make her bed. And my mom was like, oh, I'll go make it. She was like, no, no, no, you can't, you can't make my bed for me.
I need to like supervise you. I have a particular way. I was like, okay, well that explains a lot about me right there, ,
Anna: and here, and this is how this has been passed down. ,
I don't know what it is though. I, you know, I, I don't know. It's a weird thing. I've thought a lot about this because I have. Even been told, or it's been suggested to me that I am like, not necessarily maybe cut out for entrepreneurship.
Jordan: Someone said that to me once in my, my past life and that like really hurt me. Mm-hmm. . And so I don't know cuz I, I do like, I can see on paper that it, that it doesn't make any sense, but I continued. To do it. I don't know. What do you think? It's, you tell
Anna: me. First of all, ask them for saying that. Excuse me.
Jordan: Yeah, whatever. Well,
Anna: we've proved them wrong. So all women are born to be entrepreneurs and money making machines. So like there's that part I can't speak for, but I'm just gonna say that second part is how dare you? How dare you? I think like I've, I thought about this a lot lately, which is, I think for us as like women who are ambitious, who are driven, who are high performers, right?
Like, you know, it's easy to play it safe and work for other people, you know, or like not be the star of our own show in some ways. But I think like when it comes down to the deepest, deepest part of us, I think we were born and destined for this. And I think like the control, the perfectionism, the like risk of like, I think all of it is like things we need to.
Like, I mean, not all of it's bad, right? But I think for me it's like been like, oh no, this is the lesson, right? Like this is part of our evolution, not just as entrepreneurs, but as women in what it looks like to play it bigger, to be messy, to like play it
Jordan: big, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so for those listening who don't know this, you have played a massive role in my evolution from getting to like, Just like Jordan dabbling in, like I kind of have a business kind of don't to like now having this multiple six figure, we're planning to hit seven figures next year, like very, very quickly, rapidly scaling business and you know, we started working together before you were even even doing coaching in the business world.
You were still a therapist and I came to you, you were my life coach. It's like such a sweet little cute thing. and. Have, you've worked with me through multiple for, through both of my first two businesses and then through like the birth of this business, which is really cool that you've like seen the full evolution from start to finish.
Well, I mean, we're not finished, but you know what I mean. and that was one thing that we worked a lot on and that I struggled with a lot was like my first two businesses I co-founded. And this third one is my only, and my first and only solo venture. And that was, A struggle for me for, I think for a lot of these reasons, like for the failure and you know, we, I, I think back to like the conversations we were having and something that sticks out related to failure specifically is that having a co-founder is very comfy.
It's very comfy. It takes the responsibility off of you so that if you don't fail, it's not just you. Like there's something about being a CEO and being a loan CEO that really exposes that risk to
Anna: failure for sure. A hundred percent. And I don't think there's anything bad about like co-founding businesses and business partnerships, but I think like for some women, like I just saw it in you, you know, there's some things like as a coach, That we like see in our clients, we can't quite say yet.
You know what I mean? And we like play with like the right time to say things like from day one, Jordan, I always knew you were born to have your own empire. Like I always like, I just saw it in you and I think you saw it in you too. But sometimes it takes a few businesses, sometimes it takes a few evolutions.
And I think as women we're so afraid to like, you know, when we know our mindset thing, like, you know, we have to still play it out in real life. And I think. So courageous at like really over time living into your glory that you're in right now.
Jordan: Right? Yeah. What a mess though. Gosh. It was a process we have to like, yeah, no, no.
It's great. A mess. Like there's
Anna: no way out, but through. Totally. And you were willing, like I think as women we're not always willing to do the through part, and you were like, you were willing to do the mass,
Jordan: right? Mm mm And it's still a constant struggle. . Okay.
Anna: I mean, Entrepreneur hashtag
Yes. Okay. So let's, let's talk about support. Cause we're kind of like getting into this, but I wanna hear from you like the types of support that you have had through failure. Like how that plays out.
Anna: Oh my goodness. Support, support, support, support. So I think at all times, like for the last like six and a half years, like I've always.
In and out, right? A therapist, a coach, help with my kids. I'm a single mom, right? And so I think I've just really roped in extra support, whether it's been house cleaning, laundry service, and then also just even for me personally, I've hired Spanish tutors. I've taken private dance lessons, like just the one-on-one or, or some high touch support.
The more I can be supported, the more I have brain space and. Capacity for things like failure for things like risk for things like challenges,
Jordan: right? Yeah. Yes. Yes, I am. I'm a big fan. I think support in multiple forms is an absolute non-negotiable for everyone in especially women in entrepreneurship, whatever it looks like.
Anna: Oh, and my team. And my team, business team, Haley,
Jordan: shout out to Haley. Of course. of
Anna: course. She, she just kinda like a given, like she just makes my
Jordan: gratitude list every day.
Anna: Right. But yes,
Jordan: all the support. Yeah. I love it. Okay. What else do you think we need to know about failure? What have you learned? What can other people do to navigate it more easily?
Anna: think like what comes up for me is like just knowing what helps me. Failure is knowing that it's always gonna be hard. Like there'll always be some emotional pain, right? Like when I set a goal and I don't meet it, it's not that I'm like, yay, I didn't meet it. It's like sometimes I cry or sometimes I vent to my coach, or sometimes I journal it out.
And I think like the, the, the blessing of being a coach is I see everyone else's behind the business, Chis. And so I don't make myself wrong for mine, but I think if you're not a coach and you don't. That everyone struggles, right? It's easy to make yourself wrong. For that, instead of like, of course, I'm gonna have a moment, of course I'm gonna have.
This, this time of, being sad about the failure, but it doesn't mean I need to make myself wrong for it or change what I'm doing or slow down. I can still keep my actions the
Jordan: same, right? Mm. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. This, I find this to be really difficult and this is something like recently that happens. Like I said, failure happens all the time.
Like whatever. It's just part of it. and I think honestly, pure exposure to. Is like the only way to get used to it. Really, really, you know, like it's a practice like anything else. and so it's always coming up and it comes up in different ways, big and small. And we kind of recently went through this experience of we had a hundred percent retention rate for our clients for over a year since starting.
And then we massively grew. We like quadrupled our. Capacity in a couple of months. And then we had some clients drop off and I immediately went straight to like, oh my gosh, what have we done? we've disappointed people. We like, we are in the wrong. I am in the wrong, what was I thinking? This is terrible.
Like total spiral, like a instant spiral, right? Instead of just stepping back thinking like, okay, what of this is maybe just a normal level of churn? Level of client capacity, right? Like there's other things that may not be on you and may just be a normal part of the process, but it's hard to, it's hard to zoom out and get that, that context and perspective, I think, like do you have any tips or tricks or things for how you do that?
Anna: think what you said is spot on, which is, I think a lot of times it's not failure, it's just something. That we haven't experienced before, but it's normal, right? Just like you said, like losing clients or even like having an angry client or like whatever it is,
Jordan: likely everyone has experienced that,
And so it's just normalizing in your brain, shifting your expectations, right? I think like half of business would be way easier if we like, didn't make ourselves wrong for what happens. and then we can look at it objectively, right? And say, okay, is there a problem or is there not? And hey, maybe there is a problem.
How do I solve it? Or like, like you said, actually, there's no problem. It's normal for clients to move on. And even changing our languaging around it, right? Like, oh my, you know, these clients stop working with me because they hate me. Or like, Hey, I'm so grateful that these clients and I had a seasons together, and now they're moving on to something else.
And who knows, maybe they'll be back in the future.
Jordan: Yeah. What I think is really, really critical for what you like as what you just said was that it's almost like an order of operations thing here. Like to get super nerdy with it in that you have to do the, you have to do the pause and like, Okay, maybe there, maybe this is something outside of my control.
I don't need to take all the responsibility for it. Do that first and then you can look at it objectively and see if there's data that you need to get from it. And that was like, I did it out of order, but then could back up because I have so much support and a lot of people to talk to about these things can go back, get the clarity, be more objective, and then re-look at the situation and be like, okay.
Yes, this is normal and it's okay, and it doesn't mean that our business is gonna fail just because a couple of clients didn't wanna renew. But also there's an opportunity here to maybe reposition our offer or restructure our offer so that we're actually attracting the right clients instead of the wrong ones, so that this happens.
As, as little as possible moving forward, you know? So you can do both, but you gotta do it in the right order.
Anna: I love the, of course you would say I order of operations, cuz you're just like an operations , but like, I agree, right? And then it feels so much lighter I would say like when a problem like that feels like pretty light.
Like, hmm. Or we're curious like, okay, what happened? Yeah. How can I shift my business? How can I change things that's different. Oh my God. Like it just feels different in our body, right? Like there's something wrong with meat. There's like, like, I panic, I've gotta fix this. My business is gonna blow up.
I'm gonna die like that. Versus like, okay. And even when we make big mistakes, like I've made mistakes before that I've had to apologize to clients for not intentionally, right. But I have, me or my team has made mistakes where I've had to make it right. And so, and I think so Cut, like being willing to address problems, but from like an energy of like safety and worthiness,
Yes. Mm. I love. I love it. I love it. Okay. Well there was like some serious nuggets in here. What else? Anything else we need to leave people with on failure? Moving through failure?
Anna: I think that's it. I would say, I just wrote a book, the Freedom Fund, and in it I have this little analogy with goals and failure that was really helpful for me.
And the picture is in case you guys are like visual learners, two targets, right? And one target has the middle being a small goal like 10, right? The other goal. Like a hundred. Right. And I think so often we make our goal really easy because we're like, Ooh, it's easy to hit that 10. Yay I mi my goal. Right?
Instead of like, I shot for a, I shot for a hundred, but I only made 70. I didn't hit my goal, but I'm gonna celebrate that. Right? Yeah. I think it helps us to, you know, really conceptualize. It's not. Avoiding failure or, or always meeting our goals, but it's like shooting big enough so that we're always growing, always expanding, and knowing that failure is normal on the way to
Right? Yeah. What this reminds me of is something that you encouraged. Me to do when I was in your mastermind cell with heart, and it was around finances because this was a real sticking point for me in my first couple of businesses because I was always trying to like set this goal and like I, okay, there's a million things that I did wrong and didn't know how to do that I know how to do now, but one of those was I was just setting this like big lofty goal and because of the way that my brain works, if I didn't hit that goal, it was like, oh, I'm so deflated failure, whatever.
And so kind of hacking. How you yourself are motivated to, to hit those goals I think is important because some people are motivated by the, like the bigger goals. And I think it can shift over time too once you start to see what's possible. But we won't, we won't dive too deep into that. What is interesting and what this makes me think of is you always encouraged us to do good, better, best financial goals.
And that's something that I always do and then I tell my clients to do now too because. , it gives you this wiggle room of like not being afraid to put the big goal on there, but also having something that feels. A little stretchy maybe, but also comfy and not totally intimidating. And then, you know, we usually hit somewhere in the
Right. I, I mean, that's so true. And actually for a lot of my clients, I actually had them de, you know, I said that example of increasing your goal, but sometimes I have my clients decrease their goal, right? Because sometimes we make, like you said, a number so lofty that it almost feels safe because it's impossible and you know you're not gonna hit it, right?
So when you make it a little smaller, you're like, oh my gosh, that's actually doable, right? Like, I could actually make that happen. So I agree, right? It's all about playing with the amount that feels stretchy, but not impossible.
Jordan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh man. Okay. We could go on a real rabbit hole there, so I probably shouldn't like open that.
we will of course have information for how people can find you, learn more about you, go grab your book, which I'm sure is gonna be on presale, at some point after this comes out. Yes. So we'll put that in the show notes. Anything else you wanna leave us with? I,
Anna: I think that's it. That's all. I have a podcast too, the Hearts and Entrepreneur podcast, so that's a great way to connect with me if you wanna connect with me.
Jordan: Cool. Love it. Thank you so much.