Easy Scaling with Jordan Schanda King

How to be authentic, candid, and kind in your business and your content with Kendall Cherry

November 06, 2022 Jordan Schanda King / Kendall Cherry Episode 20
How to be authentic, candid, and kind in your business and your content with Kendall Cherry
Easy Scaling with Jordan Schanda King
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Easy Scaling with Jordan Schanda King
How to be authentic, candid, and kind in your business and your content with Kendall Cherry
Nov 06, 2022 Episode 20
Jordan Schanda King / Kendall Cherry

 For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit:  https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode20

Tune in as we discuss giving feedback, showing up authentically, and the challenges and resources we all bring to our business. We also dive into a bit of my personal story, the importance of alignment to your business, and the responsibilities of having a team.

My guest is Kendall Cherry, the founder and creative director of The Candid Collective and she's on a mission to create a world that’s more candid and kind. Kendall and her team create copy and marketing content for ALL kinds of businesses (including mine). She’s written for multi-seven figure software companies, media empires with 186k+ email lists, content creators with 2M+ followers. and many other virtual service providers, all while sounding EXACTLY like who she’s writing for. Kendall is also the host of Rebels Get Revenue, a podcast for introverts, visionaries, and rebels WITH a cause who want the inside scoop on all things business without the bullsh*t. 

Topics discussed:

  • Being candid and kind and why it’s the best for everyone.
  • Balancing direct honest feedback and appreciation for service-providers.
  • Why looking at every other person in your industry hurts your copy.
  • Just stop with the forcing it. There is always an easier way.
  • Figure out your differentiator by asking yourself what pisses you off about your industry?
  • Your content doesn’t have to be spicy, but it does have to be YOU.
  • Why showing the personal side of yourself is important for attracting the right clients.
  • How I met my husband and the fact that we got married 95 days after we met.
  • My vision of being “the pregnant Tony Robbins”
  • The struggle of entrepreneurship as a single person.
  • The challenges and resources we all bring to the table in our business.
  • What dating and relationships have to do with our experience with clients.
  • Getting addicted to the chaos and the hustle vs. being okay with stability.
  • Understanding that goal and outcome you’re trying to achieve.
  • When you’re aligned with your business and what you're doing, the clients just come.
  • Trusting that your actions and decisions will bring clients, but not always immediately.
  • Upleveling often happens when you let go, slow down, and open up to anything.
  • It’s normal to feel like every client you get or milestone you hit is a fluke.
  • The pressure and responsibility of having a team. 
  • Your threshold of risk and how you hold it together during the downtimes is what defines your success as a business owner.
  • Combatting the starving artist narrative that exists for writers.

Connect with Jordan Schanda King:

Connect with this week’s guest Kendall Cherry

Love what you heard? Reviews really help us out! As a thank you, you can get my 90-Day Planning Formula ($97 Value) by submitting a screenshot of your 5-star review at easyscaling.com/podcastreview

Show Notes Transcript

 For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit:  https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode20

Tune in as we discuss giving feedback, showing up authentically, and the challenges and resources we all bring to our business. We also dive into a bit of my personal story, the importance of alignment to your business, and the responsibilities of having a team.

My guest is Kendall Cherry, the founder and creative director of The Candid Collective and she's on a mission to create a world that’s more candid and kind. Kendall and her team create copy and marketing content for ALL kinds of businesses (including mine). She’s written for multi-seven figure software companies, media empires with 186k+ email lists, content creators with 2M+ followers. and many other virtual service providers, all while sounding EXACTLY like who she’s writing for. Kendall is also the host of Rebels Get Revenue, a podcast for introverts, visionaries, and rebels WITH a cause who want the inside scoop on all things business without the bullsh*t. 

Topics discussed:

  • Being candid and kind and why it’s the best for everyone.
  • Balancing direct honest feedback and appreciation for service-providers.
  • Why looking at every other person in your industry hurts your copy.
  • Just stop with the forcing it. There is always an easier way.
  • Figure out your differentiator by asking yourself what pisses you off about your industry?
  • Your content doesn’t have to be spicy, but it does have to be YOU.
  • Why showing the personal side of yourself is important for attracting the right clients.
  • How I met my husband and the fact that we got married 95 days after we met.
  • My vision of being “the pregnant Tony Robbins”
  • The struggle of entrepreneurship as a single person.
  • The challenges and resources we all bring to the table in our business.
  • What dating and relationships have to do with our experience with clients.
  • Getting addicted to the chaos and the hustle vs. being okay with stability.
  • Understanding that goal and outcome you’re trying to achieve.
  • When you’re aligned with your business and what you're doing, the clients just come.
  • Trusting that your actions and decisions will bring clients, but not always immediately.
  • Upleveling often happens when you let go, slow down, and open up to anything.
  • It’s normal to feel like every client you get or milestone you hit is a fluke.
  • The pressure and responsibility of having a team. 
  • Your threshold of risk and how you hold it together during the downtimes is what defines your success as a business owner.
  • Combatting the starving artist narrative that exists for writers.

Connect with Jordan Schanda King:

Connect with this week’s guest Kendall Cherry

Love what you heard? Reviews really help us out! As a thank you, you can get my 90-Day Planning Formula ($97 Value) by submitting a screenshot of your 5-star review at easyscaling.com/podcastreview

Ep#20 - How to be authentic, candid, and kind in your business and your content with Kendall Cherry

[00:00:00] Jordan: Alrighty. In today's episode, we are all over the place. On a windy journey, talking about entrepreneurship and running a business, and a lot about some more personal stuff in life that we all experience. We even dive into my wedding story, how we met my husband and the fact that we got married 95 days after we met.

Fun fact. We talk a lot about team agency stuff, quantum leaping in your business, being a perfectionist and micromanaging people on your team. My guest and I is Kendall Cherry. Kendall is becoming a very good friend of mine. I love Kendall. She is doing content writing for me. She is writing all of my content on social media, my email, and all of the places.

And so if you've read anything there recently, you've read some of Kendall's. Very impressive work. She's the founder and creative director of the Candid Collective, and she's on a mission to create a more candid and kind world, which is amazing. We talk about that. She creates copy and content for all kinds of businesses.

Along with her team. She now has an agency and is also the host of the Rebels Get Revenue podcast, which she also mentions. So she'll dive more into her story, and I hope you enjoy this conversation.

Welcome. Welcome, everyone. Welcome, Kendall. We have successfully started the episode on our fifth attempt, so here we go. We're here.

We're here. We made it. We are here. We accidentally started talking and couldn't stop. So we’ll have to repeat some things, and that's okay. But also had a hard time starting the episode because, Kendall, for all of you who don't know, which is I think everyone, except for maybe one person listening, Kendall is my new; I call her a content writer.

That's not necessarily the greatest label for you because you do a lot more than that. But she's writing all of my content. You're writing all of my content, my emails, my social, all of the things. Yep. And you named my newsletter. Hey, hey, Fridays. Because apparently, I like to repeat my greetings.

Every Welcome, welcome everywhere. Hey, hey. Hi. Hi. 

[00:02:28] Kelly: Hi. Hi. to where I started doing it. Which is so weird. Yeah. And I only do it in your workspace in Slack. It's like, I know I'm in Jordan's the world. And when you're an s world, A, it's a, it's a vibe. It's, 

[00:02:43] Jordan: it's a vibe. Bye vibe. It isn’t good. But it's, you know, it's my 

[00:02:49] Kelly: signature now.

Yeah. It's hopefully the name of your newsletter. It's just like part of you. That's when, because we had been planning, for those of you listening that wanna know behind the scenes how to name a newsletter, we had tried to stick with Jordan's naming convention of, you know, the A's and I get this list, no offence.

I read him, and I was like, fuck no. It was like the accelerator. The, that's my membership named one. That's good. Where was, I don't even know. Okay. 

[00:03:16] Jordan: It was just like a bunch. You'll the axioms and you were like, What? 

[00:03:22] Kelly: I had to Google what is an axiom? And then I, I then I saw the, what was the bottom one Catching 

[00:03:29] Jordan: coming out Your Fridays, Coming out your Fridays.

And I literally, my body was like, 

[00:03:32] Kelly: Ugh, there's this something, there's something that happens sometimes with, with. Content stuff where I'm like, if it makes me physically cringe, I will not do it in general. Yeah. And that I read coming at you Fridays and I just voiced memo mode to Jordan and I was like, Absolutely not.

And then I was just like, Hmm. If I were my most creative and I was just like my most ballsy, what would I say? And I was like, Fuck it. We're gonna say, Hey, hey Friday. Because she literally says that and it rhymes. Hey, hey. Friday the newsletter. Perfect. Yeah. I was watching a lot of high school musical, The musical, the series, which is where the newsletter part came in.

Nerdy shit that I do. which is a great show. It's an American classic, if you must know. but yeah, that's where that came from. I just like paused and I was like, what would, This is the other hot pitch for the 

[00:04:18] Jordan: newsletter. Yeah. What would Jordan do? This was the, this was the, the blasphemous option. 

[00:04:22] Kelly: What would Jordan do?

Wwj D And we thought that was a little too spicy. Yeah. But in a certain world that would be great. But not 

[00:04:29] Jordan: this one. Yeah. Yes. And. I gotta say you did not hold back on your, your true feelings on the coming at you Fridays or any of of the other options. You were like, this literally makes me cringe and wanna throw up.

I was like, Okay. 

[00:04:44] Kelly: Wow. Well we, we won't do that one . There are no bad ideas. Well, I feel like you're always so like direct with feedback. So I was like, she 

[00:04:52] Jordan: can dish it so she 

[00:04:53] Kelly: can totally take it. Well, and I will say, okay, like, so we haven't even like talked about who I am, what we do, What's the name of my company?

Nothing. Mm-hmm to really introduce everyone. Do it. Do it. So the name of my company is The Candid Collective and we're on a mission to create a world that's more candid and kind. And so I just believe in all things. You can be candid, you can be honest about your feelings or in this sense in business.

Like you can be honest about what you do or don't like, but also be kind about it. Don't be an asshole, but it's just something. It comes up for me literally all the time. Like conversations with friends, conversations while I'm dating with my family, with my team. Like I'll have team members give me fa feedback in a way that's candid and kind and I'm like, Ooh, that was kind of, kind of ideal because I know exactly what you're thinking, but also good job.

Like you weren't a total dick about it. So it's kind of my general philosophy on 

[00:05:46] Jordan: things. And then, yeah, it's hard to do though. It's kind of hard to do, I think like mm-hmm. , I, I think on the surface it sounds easy to be like candid and kind. Like I am all about radical honesty and full transparency, and my team knows that.

Right. But at the same time, I sometimes, like for me, I think it can go either way. You're either on one side of the spectrum or the other. Like I don't feel like most people fall in the middle. For me. I have a really easy time being direct, and I have to, I have to remember to add in the kindness to soften the blow.

That's the point. That's why they're paired. Yes. But I feel like often people are on the other side of the spectrum in that they don't speak up for themselves, they're not direct, and they just are kind. And so it's, I think most of us lean one way or the other, and it's, it's a matter of remembering to always also do the other thing.


[00:06:40] Kelly: Too. Well, it's the, it's the classic. Like you can be nice or you can be kind. The kind thing is to be honest and direct, even if it's hard. But when you say things just to be nice, or if you're agreeable for the sake of being a people pleaser, you know, whatever xyz, you know, past stuff you've got because we're all human.

Like I think that's the key is like you can do the nice thing, but in doing that you abandon yourself. You abandon your boundaries for the sake of other people, which in today's age, like and I in, in any space, it's not just entrepreneurship, but like to me it's like the whole philosophy behind it is like in doing the candid and kind thing, you also look out for yourself, which I would say, especially as women, but I would argue all people.

have some level of like this not working. That is one of the big things I think I see collectively is like this need to actually look out for self to actually have boundaries. without, I don't know, without, it's okay to look out for everyone else, but especially as women, I think we have so many responsibilities to everyone else that we often don't do what we need or say what we need to get what 

[00:07:46] Jordan: we need.

Yeah. Yeah. And like, ironically, maybe not ironically, I don't know, coincidentally maybe the candid kind thing to do is the fastest typically solution to like any other way is. Like be a dick about it. Okay. Maybe that felt fast in the moment, but that's gonna cause problems long term. Or maybe like, you know, and same on the other side.

If you are just being nice and not addressing the real problem, like man, that's really gonna stall shit out. Like we, we see this all the time with our clients because obviously we do done for you stuff. So we have to have feedback. Mm-hmm. . And the best feedback is like the compliment sandwich or whatever.

Like, you don't need to sugarcoat everything necessarily, but like, we have to have, I, I think anyway, like we as service providers have to have both, We have to have the direct, honest feedback so that we can do our jobs. Mm-hmm. like better. But we also need to be appreciated, like, come on. Give us an appreciation, give us some words of affirmation, like, keep us going.

Like keep us excited, Keep us, like, you know, you can't, we can't just have the feedback only Yeah. Without the compliments. Yeah. Or that's 

[00:09:01] Kelly: my perspective anyway. Yeah. Or just to know what, what is working and what's not working. Like you have to understand the rage, especially, you know, when you're new with someone, or I've had this happen where it's like people change or they pivot or their ideal client is pivoted or whatever.

Like, it's constantly evolving, but you have to also, like, this is something I sometimes struggle with as a ceo, is I feel very quickly like, okay, things are changing and I'm here, and then I'm like, Oh, but I have to communicate this with the team and give feedback on like, what's changing. And 

[00:09:32] Jordan: I'm sometimes like 

[00:09:33] Kelly: it's, it's hard to, to do that.

But yeah, I think it's just kind of part of the, the whole process 

[00:09:38] Jordan: of what it looks 

[00:09:39] Kelly: like and it is faster. but you also like, want, want people to feel. Like connected to you and, and want to work with you too. You don't wanna be like, Oh wow, that asshole. And you don't also be like, Wow, that delicate little flower.

Like you kind of, yeah, you wanna have some balls, but not also swing them around all the 

[00:09:56] Jordan: time. Yeah. And it's partly understanding your audience and like, for you, for you, you clearly understood your audience. That was me in that moment because I was not offended by the fact that you told me that my idea made you wanna literally gag.

Gag. and that was a quick way for us to like, Okay, great. Let's move on. Like, like, let's get to the next part. Let's, let's make the decision and go. so do you feel like you've sufficiently introduced yourself or do you wanna like, share a little bit more about, I don't know, what the hell you do?

Yeah, what do I do? 

so I would say you're evolving, so it's, I'm currently fresh. I'm truly evolving. Yeah. So for anyone new, I've been an entrepreneur for three years coming up, Well, I guess now is kind of like when I. Three years ago was starting my first business, was working full time, worked at a really big tech company doing exec coms, blah, blah blah.

[00:10:45] Kelly: Hated it. This is the super bridge version. Started a business, was doing more like coaching and consulting. That business failed was like, Fuck, I need to Classic gloss is over be. And Jordan's laughing cuz it's like, yeah, you know, it happens next. It does next Pretty much to everybody. Yeah. Next. and so I was like, fuck, I just moved from Houston to back to Austin where I'm from.

And I was like, Shit, I'm live with my parents now because I was doing that thinking I'm gonna get an apartment so soon. So I was like, I need to make money. I guess I'll be a copywriter. And I just remember being like, Oh my God, how am I gonna manage the deadlines? Cuz I had all this PTSD from corporate being like, I'm so good at the ideas and I'm so bad at execution.

And I had all this, like, I always had like a. Like a wing woman or like a wingman like helping me, you know, I would come up with the ideas and then they're the project manager, they're the execution person. It's like, fuck, if I'm a copywriter, how am I gonna do that? And I ended up, it was very strange. As soon as I dipped out of coaching and consulting and dipped into writing, it was like, people love the stuff that I wrote for me and for my content to where it was like kind of within like the first week I'd signed a few clients and it was just like as soon as I opened up to being a writer and like really owning that, the clients kind of started coming.

So I tried scaling a couple times within that year cuz I'm, if you're into human design, I'm also a projector. So I get very burnt out very quickly if I'm spending a ton of time writing. and it like kind of was working, kind of wasn't. And then I would say January of this year, it was like, what the fuck?

And it kind of started to grow a little bit faster and then, I could, I could see like, Oh, this business is gonna be like fine. Like I'm probably, this one's probably not gonna fail like the others. and I just had like very weird, like means of ma like making connections and like getting clients from other clients.

And it was kind of like, just kind of very aligned, I would say. And to where now we not only do copywriting, but we now do full branding. So we do logos, texts, that kind of thing. I write for a newsletter that I think as of this week, probably by end of the week, we'll have 186,000 email subscribers, shees, like a paid newsletter, which is insane.

we had a client, we designed his branding who was on Bachelor Nation. He's very involved there. He's doing like a sex and wellness newsletter essentially. but we like designed his stuff and it's just been this weird. Like one thing after another. But we do, I would say if I had to give you, like, the thing that's complicated I think is we can write literally anything you throw at us, like truly anything.

[00:13:36] Kelly: We've written it all. I think at this point I've had clients that were multi seven figure software companies. I've literally written like websites for strippers, Like just all all kinds 

[00:13:47] Jordan: of 

[00:13:47] Kelly: stuff. Sex positive, you know, gonna be sex toy brands, like the whole, like we just have a very, very big range of people.

Very different I would say, than the typical online business, 

space, like client roster. We're literally all over the map artists that have been featured by Pottery Bar, like all over. But I would say like the thing we can write for anyone, the thing people usually seek me out for is they've tried to hire copywriters in the past, but they have like some element of personality that they want to come through.

And I think you said this, I literally saved this voice memo. You, you voice memo would be once and you were like, What the fuck? I just got goosebumps cuz I thought I wrote this like, Yeah. And, and that's like a very normal, like I love the feedback, but it's, that's a very normal thing for me is, is being able to kind of unlock people's speaking style, communication style and like channeling it and writing it like them.

And I would say as well, like really, really strong with psychographics. So my whole take on marketing content, like I'm, I'm not, we, we do launch stuff and everything, but it, I'm definitely more of a 

[00:14:51] Jordan: nurturing content. 

[00:14:53] Kelly: Like you kind of already have invested in Facebook ads or you know, whatever way you have this audience already 

[00:14:59] Jordan: and you want, 

[00:14:59] Kelly: like, I think I always ask my clients like, what does success sound like to you?

Success for me sounds 

[00:15:05] Jordan: like I make my 

[00:15:07] Kelly: clients. Whoever their audience is. That audience, that person's like favorite content creator on the internet. Like you're reading the newsletter every week. We just had a newsletter go live this week for a really, really big client. They were like, This is the best newsletter you guys have ever sent.

I'm like, Yes, that, that is what, that is what I want. So I would say it's kind of a combination of understanding what the audience wants, but also like making it feel fresh or like, like it, like there's only so many ways, I would say, especially in online business space that you can talk about, I don't know, whatever it is.

Anything, anything . Yeah. So it's like, I, I really try and make it like super unique, super human, and also sound like the person, Cause I think that's where you really get into the authenticity for people versus, you know, I, I've had clients come to me where they're, you know, they're coaches and they're like, Well, everyone sounds like this.

Yeah, cuz you're looking at every other person in your industry trying to be them. Why don't you just be you? Yeah. And it's amazing, and this is kind of what I did in my own business and how it grew was leaning into, okay, well 

[00:16:09] Jordan: I'm super candid and I'm a little 

[00:16:11] Kelly: bit rebellious and I drop pop my ex I would say as well, like my clients, You're a perfect example,

Yeah. They love, I, I wrote this in my a note on my phone the other day. I was like, I'm Kendall Cherry, Queen of Hot Takes, spicy topics and unpopular opinions. Like is my, Yeah. Like hire, hire me to write those things for you in your industry. And it's, it's interesting. I've, I've done that in the small business mergers and acquisitions investing space.

I've, you know, doing it for you in your OBM business. I've done it for women doing like hormone balancing and like healthcare. but that's kind of the, I would say the golden thread between all of our clients is they, you, you almost wanna like turn up the volume on your 

[00:16:51] Jordan: own. 

[00:16:52] Kelly: Kind of direct spicy personality, maybe also introverted, where it's like a little bit of a struggle getting the idea out of your head.

But that's kind of the, the, the common thread is people want my, my writing style, which is super direct tongue in cheek, like kind of witty, kind of goofy girl next door without being like so sweet. Like she's the sassy , she's this sassy girl next door. I'm not like, you know, what's her name? Scarlet Jo Scarlet, Not Scarlet Johansen, Jennifer Love Hewitt in any nineties movie ever.

Like, I'm a little bit, I 

[00:17:25] Jordan: don't know, I I I'm not that vanilla. 

[00:17:27] Kelly: Yeah, no, I'm a, I'm, I'm the little emo girl in the back of the classroom. Not quite the burnout, but you know, 

[00:17:34] Jordan: she, she waits. Yeah. No, no. If I would describe myself that way, but no, I'm like, I'm the, what you're saying, the 

[00:17:39] Kelly: wallflower in the back who just like waits for the perfect moment and they're like, Oh, mic drop.

Here you go. Perfect timing. Then you're called the rest of the 

[00:17:46] Jordan: time. Honestly, that's like what made it such a no-brainer to work with you. I knew that. It's funny, like behind the scenes, not in my, my public facing content previously, but behind the scenes, anybody who knows me knows that I'm very direct. I have a lot of opinions.

I don't really sugarcoat my opinions. And it's just like, Yeah, here's, this is the thing. Like that's it. We don't need to have a conversation about it necessarily. And I hate writing content, which is why I have this podcast because I will, I don't know, I, I had pretty much like decided that I wasn't gonna do email or Instagram or anything.

Like I'll get on stories every once in a while and talk, but that's like all you're gonna get from me if I have to write a caption, it's just not gonna happen. Yeah. So. , you know, And that's, that's fine. And I talk to my clients about that all the time. Like, you don't need to be like trying to force something to happen.

And I think you just wrote a piece of content for me about this. Maybe it's gonna go out this week, but concept two, 

[00:18:48] Kelly: forcing it, the near 

[00:18:49] Jordan: table, concept two, forcing it. Yeah. Perfect. Yes, . because like, there's just no sense in that it's not gonna, it's not gonna land, It's never gonna get done. Yeah. It's gonna feel like a slog.

Like just stop with the forcing it and stop trying to do whatever it is you think you need to do. Like let's figure out there is an easier way. Totally. And for me, the easier way was I'm gonna do my podcast and I'm gonna hire Kendall to like do all the other shit . That's gonna be great. Yeah. And I think it was Emma Louise that said, Yeah, it was Emma Louise who introduced us and Emma Louise, who I was talking to a few weeks ago, who was like, did Kendall start writing for you?

Because I can't tell. She's like, I can't, She's like, I got an email today. I don't think you wrote it, but I can't tell for sure. Perfect. If you did or not. Music to my ears. Yes. Yeah. Music to my ears. That's what we want. That's exactly I want, 

[00:19:35] Kelly: Yeah, So no, I love that. And I think, I think the thing, because I had a lot of people when I first started becoming copywriter, you know, you, you Google search like, okay, how do you have a client process or all these things.

I have like many hot takes here and I've just found that a lot of times people like don't really know what they want, especially with copy. So I've, I've had so many people be like, Why don't you have a questionnaire for your clients? I'm like, Cuz my clients don't need one more fucking action item and they don't know what they want.

And I like, there's almost this ease when you do a kickoff call with me where like I take hella good notes and I can kind of like interpret what it is that you're saying to where. You truly are mic dropping and voice brain downloading. I, people are like, Is it okay if I feel like I'm talking about everything forever?

Like I'm just running on? I'm like, perfect. Cause the more that you talk, the more we absorb it and can channel it when we're writing. So it's actually better for you to word vomit as much as you want, because I'll learn your sentence structure. I'll learn the little inflections that you do. It's very weird.

And I like, I, I couldn't tell you like, Okay, this is what I do to write as Jordan, or like, this is what we do to edit it. It's just like, nope. It's a superpower. You just pick up. It's not a process. No, I literally black out. I'm literally chan channeling you when I'm writing. And then I, And what's really weird, I write have written lots of content for lots of people.

So if Emma, you know, opens her inbox and reads an email from you, she thinks she wrote it. She can't tell if I open an one of your emails. I can't tell if I wrote it or not. , 

[00:21:12] Jordan: you're like, I 

[00:21:13] Kelly: literally cannot tell. It's so stupid. Like, so there will be times when I'm like looking at a piece of content and this is like not coming from an ego place.

This is like truly something happens. I black out, I'll like look at a caption, I'll be like, Oh, that was good. And then I'll like literally go back in the doc and be like, Is that how I wrote that? And I'm like, I did weird cuz I just, I don't, it's like not me. And I'm just kind of like this vessel, this is like my very woo explanation of it.

But it's very, well, it's kind of like my zone of genius and I just don't know. It's just a 

[00:21:42] Jordan: weird quirky, I think a lot of people can, like listening can probably not, not relate to that in, in like the context of writing copy, but relate to that in, in the context of their zone of genius or their thing that they do.

I feel the same way when it comes to strategy and it's, it's I think why I have a hard time writing educational content because if you're just like, Oh, I need you to like, you know, talk to me or you know, I don't know, Educate me on how to do whatever. I'm like, I don't fucking know. Yeah. Which is why I love my podcast.

It's why I love doing strategy on a call with my clients. Yeah. Or in the mastermind or whatever it is, because I have to riff. Like I have to be in conversation and in flow, and I can strategize out the ass when I'm doing that. But if I have to write a post on like how to do something, I'm like, I literally have no idea.

Yeah. I have no clue. I can't just give you a strategy. I can't just tell you how to do something because it depends , like, I don't know. Well, 

[00:22:42] Kelly: it's like if you ask a, a graphic designer, how do you make it pop? You're like, I don't fucking know. I just do it, which is like, my designer and I go back and forth all the time.

Like the, the running joke is like, make it pop. And she's like, What the fuck? So I have to tell her like, bold this word, underline this. Like, cuz she's like, I don't unders like, I just know how to make it look good. And I can, I can tell her yes or no, but I'm like, I, I wouldn't be able to tell you how to make it pop.

You just like, I don't know. You just do it. It's like, yeah, like there, there's only so much like educational content, but then at like, at some 

[00:23:15] Jordan: point talent takes over. For sure. For sure. And I, the other thing I, I love about what you all are doing in my content, and maybe this is gonna be a good thing long term, maybe not, we're gonna find out.

But it has made, it has made my like, Okay. It has made my preference for hot takes drastically increase. Like, like they're hotter and it's like, now I've got a hot take about everything. . Well, yeah, because now you have a vessel to, That's all 

[00:23:50] Kelly: I wanna do. Well, yeah, exactly. Because you have a, like, it's one thing to have a hot, I think it's having a, a, a bo like a soapbox to say it from like, I felt this way.

My podcast rebels get revenue very similar, where it's like, yeah, I have these hot takes and like people would, you know, share the hell out of them. Or like, DM me and be like, finally someone's saying something. But it's like the moment you create the container to have the hot takes, they one, because you have a space to do it.

You generally are just, you know, you're, you're sharing them with more people. But now you know, like, ooh, I can really get curious and explore what, what actually does piss me off. And like, that's a, a question I love asking clients too, when I try and understand like, okay, what makes you tip the, the number one question to ask a fun fact.

Ask a client, you wanna figure out their I client? You wanna figure out their differentiator? Ask them. So what pisses you off about the other people in your industry? Number one, best question. That's a free marketing tip for you. You wanna figure out your differentiator, Ask yourself what pisses you off.

And I swear to God every time it's like, that is ex your exact differentiator. 

[00:24:55] Jordan: That that's it. Yeah. That's not even a, that's not a, that's not a one-liner, that's not a a one thing. That's like a, that's your thing. So that's 

[00:25:02] Kelly: your whole segment. But that's the thing, like that's your whole segment. That's your whole, like, like what?

Why you do, like, why, what pisses me off about agencies? Lord have mercy. I could tell you what, what pisses me off about being a freelancer. Like I built my agency to like nurture not only clients but like the freelancer life as well. Cause I was freelancing for wine and was like, some of this stuff fucking sucks.

And so we've like built in things to, you know, try and make it a little bit easier for people that are in that kind of lifestyle. But yeah, that's the best way to figure out like, Sets you apart from other people in your industry? 

[00:25:36] Jordan: Free. Free. Yeah. It's not free. I, I love it. I think that's a great tip. And it's not to say that like everyone's content needs to be like shit, you know?

No. Yeah. It doesn't have to all be hot takes. It doesn't have to all be spicy. It doesn't have to all be like, whatever, but. Even just asking yourself that I feel like can present so many opportunities for you to just be really you. Mm-hmm. , which like, we can talk about authenticity, we can talk about all these things like buzzers, whatever.

But this is something else that Emma Louise messaged me the other day and she was like, I feel like people are actually getting to like know you. Mm-hmm. , like not just like person, like professional you, but also like the real Jordan. Mm-hmm. who you are in like friend relationships or all relationships.

Yeah. Whether you're client or whatever, because like this is the shit that you actually say and think. Yeah, exactly. All the time when it's, And that's what needs to be in the content, not necessarily that it's spicy, it just needs to be you. Yeah. I 

[00:26:35] Kelly: have kind of a hot take here and this is like something my, my mom used to tell me.

Well my mom used to be like, Well it's nothing personal, it's just business. You know, when we were, when I was younger, like my family had like a little family business and She would always say that, Well, you know, we're in, you know, we're family, but it's nothing personal. It's just business. And my mom would always tell me this, and I just remember being, especially in the online business space, being like, What the fuck?

Like, there's a cat in the, his shot . My, my cat. Linus has a, you know, he just is who he is. If you wanna see Linus, you can come hang out on my Instagram stories. He's always there, . but no, my mom would say, you know, it's nothing personal, It's just business. And when I started this online thing, I was like, Well, what the fuck?

You're telling me I'm running a business, but you wanna know what I have for breakfast? And I'm like, sharing that I'm going to Taylor Swift night again. And like all this stuff, like, or, or I don't know, soft launching a boyfriend or, you know, having a baby. Like there, there's all this stuff that's like expected of you to, to show your personal life.

No, like trust, blah, blah, blah, like all this stuff, and yet you're telling me I'm supposed to also separate it and be a business. Like I, I just think I would say, especially for service providers, so much of you showing your personality and the way you work is also if you're into attraction marketing.

That is also kind of how people will figure out if you're a good fit to work together or not, is if when you show those sides of you, like I notoriously have, I have probably had only a handful of sales calls this year because I share my personality, my approach, my values, this is how I run things, blah, blah, blah, to where people kind of already know that about me.

They already know if they wanna work together before we get on a co, the phone call. Maybe when we get on the phone call, we're talking about scope stuff and like pricing, but we're, there's never this. , Okay, tell me about you, or blah blah, Like I'm maybe, you know, sniffing out the other person. But because you bring in that element of your personality, which like, believe, say what you want directly influences the way that you run your business is based off of like your personality and the, like, your views on things.

once you can bring that in, it's, it's really interesting the, the kinds of people you'll attract in the more that you bring that into your 

[00:28:51] Jordan: content, I would say. Yeah. And , I see, I think about this a lot because, when I get on sales calls with people and I'm like surprised or like, Oh, their personality is way different than I was expecting.

That's always, it's not like a red flag, it's. . It's weird. It, it's, it's, it's a little jarring, I think. Mm-hmm. compared to like, if you get on a sales call with me, I'm literally gonna be talking exactly like this. I'm probably gonna be wearing a hat. I'm gonna look exactly like I look in my Instagram stories because I'm sorry, but I don't do my hair, but maybe like once a week and I don't wear makeup and I'm sorry.

But that's just what I look like. And the only difference between my brand online and my brand in real life behind the scenes is that I look way better in my pictures than I do on Zoom . The one, the 

[00:29:42] Kelly: one day that half of the year when you decided to like really get dressed up. 

[00:29:47] Jordan: Exactly. Yeah, Exactly. Yeah.

Which is why. I feel like a lot of my clients put a lot of pressure on themselves when it comes to videos and like, I gotta like, wait till I've done my, like, had a hair day or makeup day. Oh, no. well, I don't do that because I don't wanna confuse people about what they're gonna get when they get a sales call with me or what they're gonna get when we get on a client call.

I'm gonna look like this. Yeah. Every time Yeah. 

[00:30:09] Kelly: Done is done is better than perfect. Even in the video space. 

[00:30:13] Jordan: I, I, this is how I know that people aren't used to me looking good, is I get on calls and if it's a day that I have done makeup or I've done my hair, they're like, Oh, wow, you look really nice. I'm like, Oh, wow.

[00:30:25] Kelly: Thanks. I guess it's like the op it's the opposite. When people are like, Oh, you look tired today. Are you okay? Oh 

[00:30:31] Jordan: gosh, I hate that. And you're like, Well, thank you. Yeah. No, I feel like shit, but thanks. Okay. Yeah. Message briefing. That's always, that's always disappointing to me when I'm like, Oh, I, I didn't actually, I don't actually feel tired.

I feel like I look pretty good. I don't, I wonder what they're seeing if I look tired. Yeah. That's funny. Well, okay. well, here we are. Here we are. This is what, this is what we've come to. we've talked a lot about content. I know we could. What we, The rabbit hole. We went down before we started recording.

I don't know if we want to touch. We can, if you want to just try it. Let's see if we pick it up. we were kind of collectively complaining about me, I think is what we were doing. Yeah. We, we were just basically talking shit about Jordan to Jordan. Yeah. We were, I I'm a micromanager. I'm a micromanager. I am a perfectionist.

I am an Enneagram one. And in my defense, Well, let's, let's set the scene. The scene is Kendall is new to working with me. Mm-hmm. , and she's fucking crushing it. I also have several other people who are new. Mm-hmm. to working with me. I have a new ea. and she's amazing as well. but I am still touching pretty much literally everything that goes out the door for my content stuff.

No, no. And not, which I think is not in a, 

[00:31:48] Kelly: Let's clarify here. Not touching in a, like I'm working on all of it. 

[00:31:53] Jordan: It's, Mm. 

[00:31:54] Kelly: I need to put my hand in the cookie jar before I let other people Yeah. See the cookies in the jar. Every, everything. Maybe not every single deliverable, but I, I, I check the photos that are in the, you know, cuz I, I sign off on them before the designer throws it into air table.

And it, you know, it's kind of funny. I look at Instagram the day it's supposed to go out and the video is different or the photo's different, or the words are a little bit different. I'm like, Jordan, what the hell? Which is fine there, there's, there is some being new, et cetera, et cetera. But 

[00:32:27] Jordan: I'm like, Damn woman.

Like Yeah. It's partly new. Yeah. But, and I think that part of it's gonna go away because we're working out our kinks and we're both doing things that are very new to us. Totally. Totally. And we've talked about this and, and we're, we're figuring it out. I think we will eventually get to the point where I don't touch it at all.

Oh yeah. But I have strong preferences. Totally. I, I used to. I used to really get aggravated about the statement, or the label picky. So I've always been told my whole life that I'm picky and I've, I've learned that. I don't like that description. Mm-hmm. , I rephrase it. And maybe it's not any better, but I call myself particular.

I'm particular, I know what I like. I know what I don't like. Yeah. I think that's the exact same definition as picky, but it sounds different to me. It doesn't sound shitty. It doesn't sound shitty. I'm particular, and I think it's actually an asset. It's an asset that I'm going to embrace and , I'm very particular about my photos.

Very particular. Yes. Yes. And so, and that's a hard thing to like, describe to someone, you know, when someone's like, Oh, they post this picture of you, and they're like, Oh, you look great. And you're like, I look like a garbage person. Why did you pick that picture? What? 

[00:33:38] Kelly: we need a folder of Jordan Jordan's top 

[00:33:40] Jordan: 10.

I'm, I'm working on that. I'm working on, on an approved. Photo folder for you. 

[00:33:46] Kelly: Yeah. Well, I just saw you had like, what, 1800 

[00:33:48] Jordan: photos? I'm like, how that hell, I've got a lot of pictures. Yeah, I've got a lot of pictures to go through. Give us a folder. I'm gonna do that top 

[00:33:54] Kelly: 20 or 

[00:33:54] Jordan: 30. You want us to rotate this? Oh, don't you worry you're not getting access to that full folder because nobody's getting accessful folder.

Oh, girl. There's lots that I'm not, Okay. Not, I mean, my photographer Tiffany, freaking amazing. She also has a superpower and everyone should come to Asheville and work with her because she's a freaking magician. Rockstar. But no, you get, there are just poses and things that I don't like. Yeah, I got it. I, I 

[00:34:20] Kelly: hate taking photos.

Hate it with a passion. I have to do literally booked a photo shoot for me, a couple weeks from now. The, and it's with my, one of my very good friends who is very talented, who has taken my photos before. Literally the moment she. All right. So November 9th. Does that sound good? The moment I said yes.


[00:34:41] Jordan: drop, fuck, fuck. Oh, what am I gonna wear? How, how 

[00:34:46] Kelly: am I gonna get the poses right? Are we gonna spend time in front of a mirror? Probably. Is it still gonna be awkward? Yes. Like it's just not my thing if, I mean, it's the same thing with like showing up on social media. If I didn't do this for a living, swear to God, I'd never do a photo shoot.

I am not a Christmas card kind of girl. I'm not a Christmas card, did I? Yeah. If and when I get engaged one day, I have thought, do we really need those photos, ? I don't know. We probably do. 

[00:35:12] Jordan: We probably do. I mean, you don't need 'em. Well, I got, I don't know, A fun fact, I don't know if you know this, but, I met my husband in Austin, so I did do that.

We missed each other. You and I missed each other in Austin. I Ms. Austin, Texas so much. We may do a retreat there next year. I haven't decided. Austin, Texas baby. Yeah, I met my husband there. We were married 95 days after we met. How, like married? How does that work? And it's a fun, it's a fun story actually.

you did know the money. How do you, you did it for money. We did it for money. This is so stupid. I mean, we kind of knew if this tells you anything. We were looking at pictures of engagement rings like three weeks after we met. It was very serious, very fast. I've, 

[00:35:52] Kelly: I've been in these, I've been in these relationships before that feel fast, and then they blow up in my face.

So I'm always just little like, We're slowing down. Yeah. We're in a season of slow 

[00:36:00] Jordan: made dear. Yeah. The first, the day that I met him, I met him. I met him at a bar because we connected on Hinge. Okay. So like, this is a very like, classy story, right? Can't wait to tell my kids. . we connected on Hinge. We met at a bar classic, like midnight.

The, on the drive there. Actually in the Uber, the, the cab driver was like, or the Uber driver was like, are you sure that this is a 

[00:36:25] Kelly: good idea? Do you think this is like a real person? Are you like, was given all this advice. Do you wanna gimme your address just in case? Yeah. 

[00:36:31] Jordan: Yeah. Should I check on you later?

We totally hit it off. I did tell him the next day I was like, Look, I really want to take things slow. Wow. You know, all of this whole spiel. Okay. Well, he got a job in another state like a few months after we had met. We had already moved in together at that point, which was like kind of a, it was a situation.

It wasn't like planned. It was like, anyway, Yeah, he moved in, he got a new job. It was like, Do you wanna come with me? And I was like, Yes, let's go. But I was stuck in my lease and we found out that they would pay to break my lease and pay to move all of our stuff if we were married. And so it was a Friday.

We were like, Okay, well what, what's let's the apartment does this , Let's get, No, not the apartment, the job, the job would pay. Oh, the company, the, the company would pay for everything as long as we were married. And so we were like, Okay, let's get married. And so we went and we got married and we were married that weekend at a courthouse.

We went, we signed the papers, and our, my friend, my good friend Alyssa, who I met in Austin, became ordained and married us. What the, We got married on Ladybird Lake. It was gorgeous. Amazing. But here's where I was going with this is amazing. Get the pictures, because all we have are iPhone pictures. Oh, fair.

And I wish that we had better pictures, so it's not like if 

[00:37:50] Kelly: you decided on a Friday and then you got married on a Saturday. 

[00:37:54] Jordan: Yeah. Where are you gonna, It was pretty, it was fast. 

[00:37:56] Kelly: You didn't have TaskRabbit for a photographer, you know what I mean? 

[00:37:59] Jordan: Like . Yeah. I went to Walmart, like this is how bad it, I went to Walmart and I bought him a ring.

It didn't even fit him. I was like, Well, you have to have something. I mean, he has a better ring now, obviously. Jesus, I spent $30 on like, That's so amazing. This metal ring 

[00:38:16] Kelly: that he could wear. That's, I, I knew it was fast. I didn't know it was that 

[00:38:19] Jordan: fast. My God. We're like legit soulmates. Like, I don't say that lightly.

I don't say that as like a, It's not bullshit's. Yeah. Yeah. Aw. I mean, and we've spent, So he's gone right now as we speak on a work trip, and this is the first. We've ever spent away since we met, what? It's been over three years. Yeah. That's so crazy. We're a Covid couple. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Interesting.

Wait, what the fuck? So we got married in October. Okay. Yeah. Don't have two 

[00:38:49] Kelly: kids. What's going on with this timeline? Sorry guys. Okay. We, I'm interrupt the business podcast to get Yeah. The massive dating story that we all wanted to know. 

[00:39:00] Jordan: Well, look, this is important context because this kind of shit, this like, this is crazy personality of mine impacts how I've built my business.

this Chris personality, So we met in July. We were married in October. Okay. We moved at the end of October and, and then beginning of November and in December, found out that I was pregnant. I was pregnant within two weeks of us, like technically on paper getting married. And then Covid happened, like, you know, a couple months later.

[00:39:30] Jordan: Oh my god. Yeah. Wow. And then you had 

[00:39:34] Kelly: your second kid. 

[00:39:36] Jordan: Yes. When our daughter was one. I found out I was pregnant with our son. Yeah. Oh my God, That was not planned. Fun fact, y'all. I'm all about planning and so far nothing in my, in my personal life has 

[00:39:46] Kelly: been, the last three years have been kind of a, a bli whirlwind.

A blitz. Yeah, Yeah, 

[00:39:51] Jordan: yeah. We're just like knocking it all out, getting it all done with, and we're probably done having kids. Maybe not though. Have I told you my vision of being the pregnant Tony Robb? No . Okay. What the fuck? We're like not even gonna use this episode cuz this is just us talking. No, this shit, this

so we originally wanted three kids. We have two obviously. and now that we have two, I'm like, there's no way in hell I'm gonna have another one. Yeah. That's how I feel right now, cuz I have especially two small children see as well. Yeah. But we probably will have another kid at some point. And I, I've had this weird like vision a couple of times.

[00:40:29] Jordan: I'm not woo by the way, I mean, I, I like woo stuff, but I'm not really, She's 

[00:40:35] Kelly: You mean you don't have your crystal 

[00:40:36] Jordan: right here? No, I don't. ? No, no, no. Chriss holes. Okay. I have my collection next. It's funny. I have these weird like visions mm-hmm. and I keep seeing myself on a stage at a massive event while pregnant.

And so I'm calling, I'm, I'm, Look y'all, I'm not actually comparing myself to Tony Robbins. I'm not like that egotistical, but that's what I'm calling it because I think it creates a nice ritual. 

[00:41:03] Kelly: Well, you, you could be like a Sarah Blakely, who I, who I would argue is much better than Tony 

[00:41:08] Jordan: Robbins. Yeah. And be, Yeah, but come on pregnant Tony Robbins.

Like, how can you, like, that is such a, that would be 

[00:41:13] Kelly: image . I hope for your sake. You don't look like Tony Robbins when you're older. like, I hope you still look like Jordan. Oh my God. No. That's crazy though. Like, I think the, the thing is like, I, I'm navigating this. We can talk about this. This is something I, I actively struggle with and I actively feel angsty about, including this morning at 3:00 AM.

Is, I feel like a lot of people in the online business space have partners or boyfriends. It's really hard being a founder when it's like, if your cash flow doesn't work out, It is my rent money. It is my credit score. And I don't have, I mean, I have like a very small amount of savings on the side, but like, if shit doesn't work out that month, like it's on me.

[00:42:00] Kelly: Like, my parents helped me 

[00:42:01] Jordan: co-sign for this apartment, thank God. But like, it, I, I sometimes feel a lot of angst where I'm 

[00:42:07] Kelly: like, Ugh. Like it, it is really hard. Running a business in general is, is really hard, but like I'm actively trying to find expanders and entrepreneurs who are single and they don't. Oh, well, you know, if I couldn't pay myself this month, like my husband still, you know, compare mortgage or whatever, I'm like, Fuck, if I can't pay my rent, I'm sending that text to my parents.

Hey, y'all gonna need you to transfer some money from the, yeah, the external savings account because it's not there right now. . and it just like the, the, the angst of that where I just, I think a lot of people that I have met in the online space, they're, they're either, you know, they have partners or boyfriends and I'm, I mean, full disclosure, y'all, I'm 30, I'm single dating, but you know, it's been kind of shit show and that, that comes up for dating is a shit show.

We have one, we have one contender in, in the mix 

[00:42:59] Jordan: right now. Who's, It can happen fast is all I'm saying. 

[00:43:01] Kelly: I feel like, I will say, I feel I have been the classic, like, oh, I'm rushing into things and then it's like not a good fit. Or like something happens. I'm actually in this season. In all things trying to slow down, which is extremely hard for me.

Yeah. Like, I'm actively working around, I have some, like going to therapy, all kinds of shit around like, ugh, stability is boring. Like, I'm working through this. Mm-hmm. where I'm like, like I'm, I'm seeing a guy right now. We haven't been dating for very long, but he's an engineer and he is not. Oh, my husband's an engineer.

I knew you were gonna say that. I had a feeling it's, it's interesting the people like, and I mean, who knows this could, this guy could be in and out, you know, in a week. But it is, I've never dated somebody that is stable like that. I feel like I've, I've always thought I need the romantic guy or the emotional guy or somebody who really gets me and it's interesting.

Mm-hmm. like, Okay. I found out before we were recording this episode. Oh, he's gonna be at a coffee shop and I don't even care. I just wanna be outside and I wanna read my book 

[00:44:04] Jordan: next to him 

[00:44:05] Kelly: and like, I don't really care if we go somewhere fancy where in the past it's always been this like, Oh my God, is he gonna text me today?

[00:44:13] Jordan: Where I'm almost like, Whoa. 

[00:44:15] Kelly: It, he doesn't text or it's like, weird thing I tell Emma is like, Oh, it's engineering brain of they're gonna text me to make plans and that's it. That's all you get. And I'm like, I need more. Like, I need, I'm used to like daily texts, texting all day, that kind of thing. And it's been really interesting, like as I work on stabilizing the business, even like in dating and like a lot of spaces, how that shows up.

And, yeah, I, I think just being, being single as an entrepreneur, like single female founder is, is a very interesting, I, I, I don't know many of 'em. I will say I, I'm actively looking for agency, an agency owner who is single and killing it. Would love an expander. Yeah. Cuz it's, I 

[00:44:59] Jordan: haven't found one yet, to be honest.

That is really interesting cuz obviously like there's unique challenges to any, any life situation that we're totally, that we're in. Cause I can imagine like some of the moms being like, Girl, I wish I was single and didn't have all this shit that I was having to also do. Totally. I was, you know, but there's, it's just interesting.

It's a perspective I hadn't even considered before because I definitely recognize that I have a massive asset and like bank of resources that I can tap into that is my husband. Mm-hmm. , you know, for like emotional support even. Like, he's gonna be on my board for sure. We're like switching over to an S corp and like he's gonna be on the board.

You know why? Because I. almost everything that I do through my husband. Yeah. Because he's very, very smart and, and so I have an asset there just with his brain. And then also financial. I mean, he's got a regular ass job that we can expect the money coming in every month, you know, like that is totally a huge asset for sure.

Mm-hmm. . And so all of that to say like we all bring, I think, unique assets and unique challenges to our approach or situation when running our business. And I don't wanna leave the dating conversation quite yet because I do think that it ties back in an interesting way to business. Okay, perfect. And I see, I see dating and relationships and things like that as very similar to like our approach to that and our experience with that as very similar to our approach and experience with our clients.

Ooh, interesting. I totally know, like when you were describing like this stability aspect of dating, I'm like, Oh yeah, that was me because I was more used to dating narcissists that were fun and exciting, but like very, very different experience. Mm-hmm. emotionally Totally. Than dating someone like my husband who's just kind of like very even keeled, very kind, very considerate, very stable, very smart, very like all of these things, he's like a perfect human.

And except that he is, like, his attention to detail sucks. So like, I'm gonna add that to the list and I know he's gonna hear this and it's fine. He knows that. but, but he, that was hard for me to come to terms with. I was very, in the first couple of weeks and especially in the first couple of days being like, Mm, no, no, no.

I don't think, I don't think that's right because like it's not normal. It's not what I'm used to. Yeah. And that is what I think shows up with, with clients a lot of times is that we keep getting into weird patterns of situations and relationships with clients who do the same shit to us because that's what, That's what we recognize.

Yeah. Yeah. That's super. It's comfy even though it sucks. Yeah. . Well 

[00:47:54] Kelly: it's interesting. My therapist has, has mentioned this to me and like, cuz I've talked to her a lot about like my dating patterns and it shows up for me sometimes with clients, but I try to set like with every new client interaction, like a new boundary or a new, like I do try to kind of navigate that a little bit.

So I would say I don't necessarily have the same things occurring every time I feel like I kind of learn from it, integrate, create something around it or, or I just, I get better at reading and anticipating, Oh, well, if they show this behavior, probably gonna manifest in this way. Yeah. But the thing that's interesting that my therapist has told me, because I don't have a boyfriend, so I have a therapist and I have a business coach and I have a shaman.

So I have all of the, all of the emotional basis. I send a lot of fucking voice memos about my life to people because I don't have a boy friend. but the thing that my therapist tells me is, W we overly anticipate, and this could be true as well, I would think in a client call when you get on with someone and you're like so excited and all the things we, sometimes your nervous system mistakes, butterflies as a warning signal.

We, because of cinema and everything, we think that because we feel butterflies and we feel excited to see someone and we're like, like, you know, our palms are sweaty and all those things, it's actually a stress response. Your body is telling you that there is a, like you are in stress, not necessarily that it's safe, but we mistake it so much because we think this is what romance is, or we've been told like, this is how it should feel like, or like what's happening or It sounds like what happened for you in the beginning.

And I would say I, I had to kind of assess like, oh, like, like this person is not outwardly emotional or like love bombing me and telling me all these things about how amazing I am and blah, blah blah. And they wanna get married to me from on the first date or whatever, which is what happened to me last year.

One of my exes weird. No, One of my exes like told me a couple weeks after we started dating and I was like, Oh my god, romance perfect and then dumped me out of nowhere. Like truly outta nowhere. devastating. But it's so interesting, like experiencing this with this person where it's, it's, they're not as overly emotional, but I'm like, oh, I just kind of wanna like be in their energy and like go take his dog for a hike or like go read a book or something next to him and like, we don't even have to talk or like we go to the grocery store.

Like that kind of stuff. And it's interesting how the nervous system responds so differently. Yeah. It feels boring or it feels stable or you think like, I'm supposed to feel the passion or whatever. And same can show up in your clients as well. Like you think it's supposed to be, you know, Oh my God, I feel like this amazing connection with them.

Which you should, you should have some level of chemistry, of course. But sometimes, and I would say in sales calls or things like that, your body is very, I. It will respond in certain ways to certain types of energies and personalities and, and people that, I think a lot of times we, especially in what we do, we're like, Oh, you know, I need, you know, X amount of cash flow.

We're like, Oh yeah, this would be such a great opportunity, or X, Y, z and, and I think sometimes we steam roll over, Well, how does it feel my body? Or Yeah. Like, is, does this feel like stress? Does this feel calming? and we kind of bowl over that and mistake it 

[00:51:12] Jordan: for stress response. Yeah. This also, like, when I think about this type of stuff, I, I think about the many times that I've recognized that I was potentially addicted to the chaos and the hustle of building a business and not like addicted to it in like, Oh, I love it, but like addicted to it in terms of like, that's.

I have a lot of years under my belt of running a business. Yeah. And this is the one that's been like quote unquote easy for me. Yeah. And that's, it's kind of a weird adjustment to make when you have felt like you've had to work really, really hard in the past and things didn't work out. Mm-hmm. , you can just learn to expect that.

Yeah. And when it's easy, it's kind of like, wait is like, is the shoe, is the other shoe about to draw? Totally. Or all that's all I had to do wrong or like Yeah. It's just, it's, it's hard to adjust Yeah. To something that different. Yeah. It reminds me 

[00:52:12] Kelly: of concept five, anti 

[00:52:13] Jordan: hustles culture, , 

[00:52:17] Kelly: but tru truly, I have all of your concepts memorized because I have a slightly photographic memory, so it's hilarious.

but no, it just reminds me of like, we need to create, like honestly you should have in your membership a something hustler's anonymous meeting. Something, some kind of meet up or mix. Mix or something. Cuz it's, it's totally true. Where it's like, and sometimes I'm like, I don't even know how to, how the fuck to create stability in this?

[00:52:40] Kelly: Like, I'm doing my best, I'm throwing spaghetti at the wall. We're doing what we can, like everyone is behind the scenes, like everyone is just fucking figuring it out. Like nobody's got it, you know, figured out. But we try so hard to create the stability and then it, there's also some part of it where it doesn't resonate and so you kind of like bowl over it again and you know, you either keep perpetuating it by attracting in the same clients or maybe investing too quickly or like, not allowing yourself to slow down because I think we all get caught up in the rat race of, you know, more growth faster and never really even taking a step back and thinking like, well when, when is this enough?

Like is there a certain amount of money that's enough? Like what is the mm-hmm the ceiling and always understanding as well the ceiling. Is always gonna move because it's, it's kind of like the, the, the finish line's always moving. The, the more you have, the more you want, the more you have, the more that you want.

And I think especially for me in this season, I'll say like, I'm, I'm having to act like I'm doing a lot of mindset work. I'm doing a lot of therapy. I'm doing a lot of like doing this exercise called the fear inventory around, you know, being bored or the, the term boring and there's like a lot of shadow work there.

But doing a lot of deep inner work in this season around it's okay for things to be stable, it's okay for me to take care of myself first. and realizing that just because I can hustle, like your nervous system, anybody's nervous system isn't meant to be. Trauma and in stress for that long. It's kind of, there's a, it's something in, it's like the concept of like, you've probably heard about like the tiger in ancient times.

Like our bodies were meant to go when we were like cavemen or whatever. We would see a tiger in the wild. We would run, run away, and then we would feel calm again because the tiger's gone away. And that's how our body naturally is supposed to deal with stress. Well, when you're an entrepreneur in a high stress job, the tiger's always around.

You're always on edge. Yeah. You don't ever get a chance to truly chill out or turn off. And it's, it's, I mean, I'm not a doctor, but it's probably not great. I would say it's probably not good to be at 10. 10 outta 10 me this morning waking up at three 30, fucking voice memoing my coach, What the fuck? You know, thinking all these things and going back to sleep, like that's not good.

But recognizing you have to be able to. To turn it off because the, the, it really shouldn't be this like pushing huy thing. Like it really can be, like, I think about like my biggest clients or like my, like the people I really enjoyed working with, they all came to me from like some unexplainable, It wasn't a fucking funnel that I had, it wasn't some like cool infrastructure we had set up or like, I pushed in the dms like, like my biggest client right now with the 180, I think as of this week's 186,000 people on their newsletter that we write for.

I was invited to write for a software company and I literally interviewed this girl. Hit it off with her in person. She was like, Hey, we need a blog writer. That was in February. Then in July while I had c and I'm thinking, Fuck, there's no way I'm gonna get a sales call this week. I literally get a Slack message saying, Can we pay you X amount for every article to have you start doing this?

Dropped in and then a week later, same company I write for both of her companies. The other company said, Hey, can we actually pay you in August to write four more blog posts for us? So we're actually gonna double the amount that you just, that we would normally pay. I didn't have to do shit like I it a Slack message.

Hey, we want to pay you this. Can you do it? Yes. And it's, it's this thing where I think the things that are aligned in the right people, you don't have to push. You could have all the infrastructure in the world, but also it really can be that easy and it should feel that easy despite the hustle, despite the 

[00:56:42] Jordan: rat race.

Totally. And I've had conversations, I think, on this podcast with Julia about this because there's, I, I feel like there's a couple things that work here. One is that when you are like really aligned with your business and what you're doing, and you like deeply believe in it and enjoy it, I feel like those people just come, They just come.

They can like, I don't know, there's like some energetic woo woo component of this. Oh, for sure. For sure. And also people just like your current clients love you because you do great shit. Yeah. And so like, we get a lot of referrals from our clients and that is definitely an element of it. But also I do think that there is, there are some things happening in the background that they're not instant gratification.

Mm-hmm. , they're not like, Oh, I put out ads and then people started rolling in, which. I mean, we do that and it works really, really well. But also people come to us because of decisions that we made six months ago. Mm-hmm. or like in your case, you know, you had that interview with that company or whatever, and then like things just come out of it.

And it may not be immediate, but it may, it may be a more of a slow burn on some of those decisions that you make. Totally. Because clients don't just, I'm a firm believer that clients don't come outta nowhere. Like Yeah, no. These good things that happen in our business happen from something. It may just not be something that we see totally.

Like it's a referral or it's, it, it's a conversation or it's a guest podcast that you did a year ago, or it's a whatever. Mm-hmm. . But it, it is coming from the work that you've put. And that, that doesn't mean that you have to work harder, it just means that you need to like totally, consistently do your shit and show up and eventually like it, it just starts to kind of trickle in and then Yeah, I think at some point kind of explodes.


[00:58:34] Kelly: I do a lot of like EFT tapping, if you're familiar with what that is. I do that a lot and there's one video in particular that I'll sometimes do, and it's specifically for like new leads, new, more email subscribers, whatever. One of the lines in it that just like totally changed my perspective on things was like there are unseen forces at play.

Bringing people into my Yeah. My realm. And it was like the moment I thought of that I was like, Fuck, you're right. Like, like at any given moment right now in the world somewhere, there could be someone in a room God knows where, in a DM. Who, who knows what, saying you gotta work with Jordan. Like she is totally the best.

And these are things like, you can't plan 

[00:59:12] Jordan: that on a spreadsheet. You can't plan that in 

[00:59:15] Kelly: a sales call or putting it on your calendar or say, Okay, on next Friday at 1:00 PM I'm gonna have this sales call. Someone. There's, there's so many unforeseen things that. And this is the thing I, we haven't even touched on this, but I traveled through Europe for seven weeks while running my business, while also up-leveling the fuck out of my business, actually re onboarded while I was, I don't even remember what country 

[00:59:37] Jordan: I was in.

Don't remember, 

[00:59:38] Kelly: Who knows? Who knows? I was somewhere in Europe, but I traveled all over and I just remember this whole trip being this like practice in openness and thinking instead. And I used to be like, Okay, well if I do this and I talked to this person and I reach out to in this way, like I'm gonna get these clients and this kind of thing.

And I realized like the moment I let go and was way more open to, you know what, I know clients are coming, they're always coming. When I let go, they actually show up. They're super aligned. And I don't also feel like in such this like scarcity mode, the moment I can let go and be open to whatever way they're gonna show up, it actually shows up in a way that's better than I could have even planned out for.

Yeah. So, but, but it's, it takes, it's been like a major. . It was like one of the main themes of this trip that I went on was like, understanding anything can happen at any time and there's, there's no way in the world you could ever predict it. And if you did predict it, it's probably smaller than if you let 

[01:00:37] Jordan: go, I would argue.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. I remember like distinctly having a couple of sessions with Julia where I was like, Oh my gosh, like this success we've created is a total fluke. Totally. And like what if clients start dropping off and like, where are clients gonna come from? And she's like, Well, where did your last clients come from?

And we were talking through that and I'm like, Well, Yeah. I mean, it's not necessarily stuff that I like specifically planned for. She's like, Well then why are you trying to like specifically plan for where your next clients are gonna come? Like they're, they're gonna come. Yeah. They're gonna come from other things.

Like, you just need to keep your head down and keep doing things safe. Keep showing up and stay. Yeah. Like whatever it is that you're doing. Yeah. because they always just come. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I just asked a, a gal, one of our clients who's freaking amazing. I asked her for a testimonial this week and she sent it and she was like, Oh, by the way, I referred you to three people this week.

I was like, Oh, okay. Sweet . 

[01:01:34] Kelly: Yeah. Totally. Totally. I think something that's interesting here that I think we should talk about too, I feel this a lot where I'm like, Oh, that client, that was a fluke. Oh, that person signing on, that was a fluke. Oh, that, that person, biggest company I'm writing. 186,000 people I write for their other company.

They, we also have a request for proposal right out right now for me to start writing their other newsletter, like a shitload five figure monthly recurring thing. It's a fluke. My brain goes, It's a fluke. Yeah, it's a fluke. It's a fluke. They're gonna find me out. We just got all this feedback of like, Wow, this is the best newsletter we've ever written.

No, my brain goes, it's a fluke cuz I, and I think it's this hustle culture where you think it has to feel hard instead of being like, No, it's super aligned. I'm the longest person that's been there on staff at this point. besides I think a couple other people, but one of the long, as far as writers go, the longest where I'm like, Oh, there, like, it doesn't have to feel so hard, but there's something in that where you, like, it comes up for me sometimes and I kind of, I'm actively working through it where you, you always think.

Oh, that big cash month was a fluke. Or that client signing on for more stuff was a fluke. No, it wasn't. You, you did a great 

[01:02:51] Jordan: job. Like, they're gonna find me out at some point like that. They're, Who doesn't think that? Who doesn't think that? Everybody thinks that. Yeah. Yeah. Surprise guys. It's crazy. 

[01:02:59] Kelly: You heard it here first.

Everybody fucking thinks that. 

[01:03:02] Jordan: Yeah. Yep. Sorry. You're not unique. Yeah. . 

[01:03:05] Kelly: Yeah. Join the fucking club. Hustlers and others. Yeah, it's, We meet Wednesdays at six . 

[01:03:11] Jordan: This is like how, there's so many things about entrepreneurship that I think are just like inherently hard and maybe harder as women. I don't know. And maybe harder because we're in this online space and like all of the shit that is this online space, which I, I have a love hate relationship with.

But, that is one piece that shows up for me a lot. Another thing that shows up for me, especially as I've been building. This company that I feel like is much bigger than myself and I don't know if you have that. Oh, baby girl experience. We haven't even 

[01:03:42] Kelly: gotten to like any of my vision stuff. 

[01:03:44] Jordan: Yes. Yeah.

And we haven't even talked about like the agency and like having people on a team, like a big team, and not just contractors, but we have like, we have I think seven employees now and like that, that responsibility and pressure I feel on almost a daily basis. And it's just a weird, it's a weird experience and it's something that I feel like nobody talks about.

And it's something that I've been thinking a lot about lately because we had, we had a few weeks where I felt like as a business owner, things were a little rocky. Like there was a lot of changing, a lot of shifting, a lot of like, , we had a couple of clients drop off, which is something that was really new for us and, and it's weird to have clients drop off and still be like, I had a great experience, but, and it's like, Oh, okay, well like that's at least good that you had a good experience.

You just can't afford it. But it's still like a little sketchy. Mm-hmm. for us financially because of our business model. And I've really been thinking about the fact that that is by the nature of like owning a business, the shit that you're gonna deal with constantly. Mm-hmm. , there is no outrun The risk.

Yeah. And the hard shit. And it's more about, it's more about how you're gonna show up and hold that risk and deal with that risk on like an almost daily basis. Mm-hmm. , because that's not gonna go away. Like the bigger that you get, actually the heavier that it feels. Mm-hmm. . And that's not something that I.

Anticipated. I felt like it was like, well, once we're making 50 K months consistently, well yeah, we got it made. Yeah. But it's actually like more risky, more confusing. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It feels even heavier because the stakes are much higher. Yeah. Because I have people I'm providing for like, legitimately they're livelihoods.

Mm-hmm. , Holy shit. 

[01:05:36] Kelly: Yeah. It's crazy. I feel the same way. I think the, the thing is because I, I go through this sometimes where I'm like, Ugh. And I think for me, like I would just like to, I, you know, I don't have a, a low salary, but I don't have a high salary. Like I'm kind of in the middle. Like, I think for me, I'm like, I wanna be able to provide that for me and not have to rely on a partner.

Like that feels like very independent for me. And I, I actually get maybe, and maybe this, I don't know what the driver is, I actually feel, so like one of the best parts about my job is getting to give other people jobs. In all things. Yes. And like that is like my, it's awesome. Like, it's so fun. Like I get to find cool people that I genuinely enjoy working with and give them jobs and show them that they have value.

And, and also something that's important for me and the way that I've built my agency is, I mean, I, I built it from the perspective of I was a freelance writer. There are things about being a freelance writer that kind of suck. And for me, I just firmly believe, and any a agencies, there's so many different ones like ours runs so differently For me, coming from the perspective of I was a freelance writer, there is a lot, if you think about any writer, And what you've seen in like media and movies, it's always the fucking penniless writers, starving artists.

I'm suffering for my art. And you're told, and this was, I mean for me, like I was a communications major in the liberal arts college and it was, well, you're not in marketing and you're not in the business school, so you're not gonna make that much money. And this, and constantly having people in that work for us who experience the same thing where I'm like, You know what?

Fuck that. No starving artist narrative does not exist here. We have clients that pay us very good money to write for them and love what we do, and it's not the same dry shit. And it's something for me, I think like getting to mold that in the kind of agency experience and make it what I want to be like.

It's so important for me, for my clients to feel like, you know, obviously we do good work for them. They enjoy working with us, but also the, the internal side, like my, we're my team, like we have a mental. Po like basically a pause clause where sometimes when you're a freelancer, if you have to, I mean your livelihood relies on your creativity.

It's really hard to feel creative if you're like going through it for whatever reason. Whether that's like a clinical mental health something or, I mean, I had an experience last year where I was dumped out of the blue and I like could not get out of bed. It was unreal where I was like, Fuck. But I'm a freelance writer.

Like I literally have to write to make money to pay my rent. And a lot of times when you're freelance writer, if you need to take a break, you're just cut. Like you're just cut. They're gonna find it somewhere else, especially in agency world. And so I knew when building mine kind of coming in with that perspective, I was like, you know, we won't pay you for the work that you haven't done, but you get basically a pause clause, no questions asked.

You can take a month off. No harm, no foul. You get one a year, but that way you, you're not running this risk of like, Fuck am I gonna get cut off? Am I gonna get replaced? Any of that stuff. We'll, we'll, we can move things around and we have flexibility to allow for that to happen because again, I think it's so important.

Obviously I care so much about my clients, but the people that I bring along with me, I wanna make sure that they're taken care of. And we have, I mean, we have a lot of single moms that work for us too, where, there was a time when we had like two or three single moms writing here, which was kind of a weird fluky or never anticipated that, but people where, I mean, I just hired two women who are like over 50 and they're like, I can't believe I'm working here.

I was like, No, you have value. Like, it's never too old to like it, it's never too late to to, to write and to do those things. Like I, I think it's just such a. , you can, you have the power to create in any business, like the feel that you want it to be. And, and coming from my background where I was a freelance writer, never really wanted to be a writer anyway.

And then figuring out like what sucks about it, being able to have that flexibility and create it in a way, so like my team benefits from it too. It's not just me, it's not just the clients. Like it's very, like the entire ecosystem has stuff built into it, so it feels good for everyone. Where I think a lot of, Yeah, a lot of times, I'll say in typical creative agencies, writers are, I expect this thing done and it needs to be done basically tomorrow.

And well, the client asks for this, so you're working on a weekend or whatever, and you're treated like, I don't know, I just, I never want our work to feel like manufacturing creativity. So there's a, a lot of stuff I've I've done to try and like wade out of that, 

[01:10:26] Jordan: I'd say. Yeah. Yeah. I, I love this and I have so many opinions about this team side of things because, Obviously our clients are important Yeah.

And critical to what we do. Mm-hmm. , but honestly, team is harder to replace. Totally. And you find good team, like you have to invest in your team and you have to prioritize your team because they are the ones that are making this shit wrong. Yeah. They're making the, we can find another client and yeah, we can find another team member.

But these, these people are like, the people on our team are very loyal. They're, they are heavily invested in what we do and what we're building and our mission, and they're very committed to doing the thing that they do well. Mm-hmm. . And, and so that is, it, it's, it's an interesting balance to, to balance the needs of the client with the needs of the team and, and prioritizing that.

And I, I feel like I, I, I don't always get it perfect, but I also, like, I recognize that it's a work in progress, but I also do have. , a lot of those like past experiences that inform the way that we do things on our team. And I, I have a hard time imagining that I'll ever have an employee that works 40 hours a week because I remember what it was like to work 40 hours a week in that shit.

And that sucks. And I don't, like, I don't want to, I don't ever want someone on my team thinking about their job the way that I know. I used to think about my jobs. Yeah. You know, and it's not that they were like bad workplaces or anything. It's just working a 40 hour a week job sucks. Like, period. Well, it's not, it's 

[01:12:02] Kelly: not realistic 

[01:12:03] Jordan: either.

Yeah. So like, I, I just, I always tell my employee, all of my employees right now are part-time, but I tell them, you know, like once we get to the place that you're full-time, it's probably not gonna be 40 hours a week. And I'm okay with that. You can be full-time and work 30 hours a week for me. That's great.

Yeah. There has to be a line for full-time versus part-time at some point. But, but, that's an important thing that I feel really strongly about. Another thing that I feel really strongly about is like my team is not cheap. Mm-hmm. , and that directly impacts my bottom line. Mm-hmm. . but I do not wanna just like get the bottom dollar people on my team.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And it's, it's funny, I just realized this kind of recently cuz I've been going through a lot of my stats and, and information about, expenses and things. And everyone on my team makes more money hourly than I've ever made in a job. Ever. Oh, wow. Ever. Wow. Ever. And, and so that is also important to me that like people aren't just making, like, I, I don't think anyone on my team makes less than 20 something dollars an hour.

Yeah. And that's like on both sides of the business on like the doer, like, Client facing side, which we go upwards to. Some of our people make $300 an hour. Mm-hmm. , so that tells you anything. And then even like backend ops, assistant EA folks, like I think $25 an hour might be the lowest. Which maybe doesn't sound like a ton.

Yeah. But, but I like, I feel like that's a really good hourly rate. Mm-hmm. for a lot of different, like, jobs in this space. Totally. on more of like the admin side of things especially. Mm-hmm. and, I mean, maybe I just had some shit jobs, I don't know. But I worked in the non-profit space for a decade. Oh.

So I'm used to being paid garbage. Right. but I feel like there was something else. Oh. And we do. We like our part-time employees get paid time off. Like that's really important to me. Yeah. That people have time off that they can take and still get paid and it not like drastically impact their Yeah.


[01:14:13] Kelly: coming in. Yeah. Something that's interesting that I do agency wise, which I don't, I mean I'd eventually love to run like a mastermind on this cuz I just think it's a super smart way to staff. But something I do as a creative space is we run basically an apprenticeship program, like paid apprenticeship.

So we hire people that they like, obviously they wanna have their own clients. And I would say we have three types of people. We have your nine to fiver who wants like a side hustle and with some extra cash on the side, but they kind of wanna learn how to write marketing stuff. Like we have one girl who's a technical writer in oil and gas, but she wants to write funner content, quote unquote fun, fun things.

Interesting clients. Not fucking. Oil and gas, boring stuff. And then we have like your classic freelancer who kind of does a little bit of everything. and then we also have people who have their own copywriting business, but they're either just starting out or they don't have the clients yet, or they're wanting to kind of like scale back and like learn the business side of things and get like, basically like accelerate their growth when it comes to their writing.

And so what we do is basically we teach you how to write. So we, we hire people who are talented who already have like the chops, but usually it's people they probably need like one to two months of, we'll record a loom video and like live edit. Hey, here's, you know, what changes we would make or we'd, you know, get feedback.

But it's really interesting, the people, I, I, we really haven't, I think we've only had to let go like one person, everyone else. My longest writers have been here since July of last year. Two of them have been promoted internally to like podcast manager, and then we just up-leveled one of them into, being our content strategist.

But it's this place where, it's interesting when you kind of give people the educational side of things, how much one, how much better they are as employees and how much better their writing is. But also you ki it's almost like you kind of teach someone to fish. And one other piece we do with our staff writers is they get a quarterly, basically like one on one mentoring call with me so they can learn how to write, I don't know, a sales page or we'll kind of teach them the different types of writing and we'll assign and ki.

Okay with like, well, you know, they can take the a little bit longer to write the thing, but they're learning and getting exposure. Oh, cool. I'd never, I would've never had an opportunity to write a sales page unless I sold one to somebody, which can be hard. so we'll have that happen. Or like, especially my, my copywriting girls, that have their own business, they actually wanna talk to me about business.

Hey, how can I find better clients? Hey, what's my offer suite? Can we talk through financials? Like that kind of thing where, it's interesting the, like, being able to give people that kind of support, they're one, they're fiercely loyal and they end up writing better content to where I've trained up writers where, I mean, they'll, they're right for me.

Which I would say like, that's like the pickiest we can maybe get, they write for me and the I'll read it and I'll be like, 

[01:17:24] Jordan: Fuck, that's better than if I wrote it . I'm like, Shit. 

[01:17:28] Kelly: Okay. The, what is it? The student has now become the teacher. Like, it it, and it's so strange cuz you just, I don't know, when you invest in people in that way, I found the, the educational side of it for me is such a big important part of like, the future of the brand.

so it, it's really interesting having that show up in an agency model, which I don't really see people do in the creative agency space. A lot of people are like, Well, I'm gonna just hire people who are good. I'd rather hire people with great, like some of my best writers have been like, I'm good at creative writing.

[01:18:01] Kelly: I don't know how to write for marketing. I can teach anybody how to write for marketing. If you have writing chops, I can teach you that. That's easy. If you don't have the writing chops, I can't really help you. But yeah, the, the teaching for marketing, that's, I mean that's a couple videos and I mean, I used to do instructional design in 

[01:18:16] Jordan: corporate, like I could teach anybody, but no, it's just interesting.

Yeah, we do a, we have a. Pretty aggressive stance I think on professional development. Mm-hmm. in that we do a lot of like training and I don't, I, I sometimes do, but I haven't in the past for the most part, hired just like, Oh, this is the best person who knows all of the things about everything already.

Mm-hmm. . because a lot of what we have to do in our work with clients is adapt to their platforms and their needs and their specific nuances on their business. And so I need people who are like totally fine to get down in the dirty with like something new and quickly learn it. And we absorb a lot of that cost typically for our clients.

And it just, I mean, one of the gals on my team who I feel like I talk about on every episode, cuz she's amazing. I hired just because. . I don't know. There's something like really fantastic about her personality and I feel like we're gonna figure out where she's gonna go. And she started working kind of like on some tech and design stuff.

Mm-hmm. and she has evolved and been promoted and gotten raises like pretty regularly, , like, you know, every few months. It's like, okay, well you're still absolutely crushing it and you've learned all of these new things. And so that I think is the more important thing to find the right people for your team.

Mm-hmm. . And then like you can, like you said, I mean, for the most part people can be trained on any of this, on any of these things. Yeah. on the specifics of platforms or on tactics or whatever. And. I am a chronic course downloader. Mm. Interesting. I try not to, I really try not to. But every month or every other month or so, I'll download some type of new resource or course mm-hmm.

And the first thing I do is like, blast that out to my team. Like, Hey, you wanna learn how to do something new? Go do it. Mm-hmm. like, go, go teach yourself like this, like, new strategy for whatever. Mm-hmm. . cuz I, I, I just want them to know mm-hmm. , like it benefits everybody I think. Yeah. No, I love that. 

[01:20:23] Kelly: I'm not a chronic course person.

I probably 

[01:20:28] Jordan: could be, I guess. Yeah. I'm not, I love to buy them and then not take them. Classic. Yeah. I, Is that just 

[01:20:34] Kelly: me ? No, I think that's very common. I, I, us, I think I, I'm like, and I know this is what I do, so I just choose not to, not to throw money there, but no, that, that resonates a lot as far as like, I, I think the more you can invest in people.

it. You, you, I think as a ceo, you, like, I tell people this a lot where I'm like, like, yeah, we do great writing stuff half the time, like most of the rest of the world doesn't really see, like, I'm really good at hiring a team. I'm really good at sniffing out talent, but you know, the world's not gonna really see that, you know?

No, no one, yeah, no one sees that side of thing, except for when, you know, they love our client content. I'm like, Well, thank you xyz writer for, for writing that and getting that across. But yeah, it's, it's something that for, for me, it's been like the most gratifying part of the process and it makes the hard days worth it.

like a big thing for me is like collaboration in general. Like, I, I wanna collaborate with my clients, I wanna collaborate with my team. And like, there's one, one time in our Slack channel, you know, a few weeks ago, one of our writers were like, Thanks for collaborating with me guys. I was like, Ugh, she's in the brand values in the slack.

[01:21:46] Kelly: I can't, Yeah. I was like, Oh my God, my heart, my heart can't handle it. But tho those kinds of moments are like, like, they're like, as stressful as entrepreneurship is, especially as you're scaling and like all the shit that goes along with that, Like, those are kind of the moments for me that make it worth it.

yeah, so that's what always feels really, really great. I'd say sitting in this seat 

[01:22:09] Jordan: now. Yeah. I, I agree. I'm like so terrible at, getting like quantitative. data. Mm-hmm. on what we've done for our clients, and I just like, I don't know, like Yeah. I feel like once you start dabbling that I'm like, I'm not promising people results.

That's not what we do. Yeah. Like, I'm not trying to put a bunch of information out there that makes you think that that's what we can do for you, because everyone's situation is totally different. But what I freaking love is those qualitative that we get. Like somebody, somebody sent me a testimonial this week and, she said, she said a couple of things that I think were super adorable, but one of them was, the fact that she's gotten done, she's gotten more done in three months since she's gotten done in three years.

That's what she told me. I was like, Whoa. Like, what were you doing? That's good. 

[01:22:56] Kelly: That's good. She 

[01:22:57] Jordan: also said that, she was like, I can't say enough good things about Jordan. Seriously. People in the Target checkout line are tired of hearing me talk about her. Whoa. I was like, 

[01:23:08] Kelly: Oh, that's crazy. That's really nice.

I've never, That's really great feedback. I love that one. Yeah, that one's good. 

[01:23:16] Jordan: Yeah, I love it. Loved it. All right. What else do we need to talk about? I 

[01:23:20] Kelly: don't know. I think we talked agency. I think we talked content. We talked quantum leaps. Huh? Talked to quantum leaps. Talked about how, uh, annoying you are.

No, not really. . Yes, Yes. Talked about micro. We're gonna 

[01:23:33] Jordan: get there. Micromanaging. Yeah, it's, Yeah. I've literally, Yeah. I mean, 

[01:23:37] Kelly: it's been like half a day since, Been literally half a day. You're fine. Yeah. No, I, The direction is great cuz some clients, I'm like, What? This makes no sense. Okay. We're rolling with it.

Yeah, I don't really know that I have anything else. I think that's kind of what's going on over here lately. 

[01:23:52] Jordan: Yeah. The full same, I I think we've covered it all. Yeah. I'm actually gonna like shut the podcast down cuz there's nothing else to talk about now. 

[01:23:58] Kelly: Oh wow. I, I'm getting kicked out, ladies and gentlemen.

ladies and probably Ladies and Jordan's 

[01:24:03] Jordan: husband. Ladies and ladies. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I make my husband listen to every episode cuz I listen to it while cooking dinner typically. Wow. Because again, I'm a micromanager and so I listen to every single podcast before it goes out live. Oh God. Yeah. So I can't wait, I can't wait to listen to this conversation that we've just had.

[01:24:23] Kelly: Can't wait to re-listen. I listen to my own, but it's because in human design I'm self projected. So a lot of times I listen back to my own voice memos a lot cuz I can tell and like get tipped off. Like if something's right for me or not, or I, I kind of like self coach that way. So like a lot of times I send Emma a voice memo and then Emma's my coach.

but she, I'll be like, Oh, nevermind. Got it. Don't need you to listen to this 15 minutes of voice memo as I send 

[01:24:50] Jordan: over . That's so interesting. I super helpful. Don't ever listen re-listen to anything that I send. I, I find it helpful to re-listen to the podcast because I black out and so I don't like know.

I literally can't remember what we talked about. Fair. Well think right now, I, I usually have to message people and be like, Do you remember any like, high points of what we talked about so I can record this? No. 

[01:25:12] Kelly: You need to, to stop blocking out and record your voice memo so we can write your content about it.

Yeah. , take some notes or something. Yeah, I know. Take some. 

[01:25:24] Jordan: But yeah, I should, I should, I did. I, I wrote down quantum leaps. Yeah. I knew it was one, two words. Agency shit. Yeah, I knew. Yeah. And micromanaging content clients 

[01:25:33] Kelly: had a lucky guess that it was . Quantum Leaps Agency should . 

[01:25:40] Jordan: Sorry, dude. I also wrote down a note that I don't consume other people's content.

And I think that that's actually, you mentioned something about that at some point. Oh yeah. You should think that's very helpful. I don't follow people. I think I follow like 50 people on Instagram, if that tells you anything. Which, I've talked about this on a, I think I've talked about this on an episode before, but, If you have a problem with D Doom scrolling on Instagram, just unfollow everybody.

Yeah. Because there is nothing more boring than checking your Instagram and the same post being at the top all day because you don't follow enough people for new content to pop up. That's super smart. And so every time I open it, I'm like, Oh God. I exit it immediately cuz I'm like, Oh God, I already saw that real for the first three seconds, 12 other times this day when I That's smart.

When I opened up the app. That's smart. So yeah, I don't like following other people and consuming their content and that makes it really easy not to copy other people. Yeah, I would. 

[01:26:29] Kelly: Yeah. I would say one, it's just good for your nervous system. Like, dear God, we're on our fucking slacks and dms all the time.

Like, give your body a break, man. One thing I'm gonna do here soon, I am gonna get a work. Hot take. Ooh. Emily just did this and I think it's so cool. Cool. Emma Louise, I love her. she did it, and when I met up with her in London, I was like, That's fucking genius, because yeah, I'm, I'm a classic. I did take tick, tick off my phone.

I was like, This is not serving me. I didn't have TikTok. Yeah. I, it wasn't serving me. I was spending too much time. And honestly, it's kind of stupid and I, I really would love to get into recording TikTok content, but it is, it is insane how within hours of having it off my phone, I felt more at ease. So now I'm just really going for it.

But yeah. My, my next, next, I don't 

[01:27:18] Jordan: know, 

[01:27:19] Kelly: kind, kind of sexy hot take is, not gonna have a, I'm gonna have a personal phone and then I'm gonna have a work phone. 

[01:27:26] Jordan: Can't wait. Yeah. For, for anyone who is a mom listening, I had a really, sobering experience recently in that my, my daughter who. She's just barely over two.

at was asking me to do something. I had my hand, my phone. She's like, No, no phone. Oh no phone. I was like, Aw, am I on my phone too 

[01:27:45] Kelly: much? I was just like, 

[01:27:46] Jordan: devastated. You know? Like she just wanted me to pay attention to her and I that I feel like that's a meme and the fact that she actually did that and she was so young, I was like, Wow, that is really, I need to, I need to really be paying attention to how much I'm on my phone on her.

Yeah. And period. But yeah, it was kind of scary. Totally. Anyway, on that down note, should we sign off for, We should. Let's 

[01:28:10] Kelly: sign off. Yeah. Grateful to be here. Let's like end it in some positive vibes, man. Like, well, 

[01:28:16] Jordan: grateful to be here. Here's the, here's the thing, we're gonna put your info in the show notes, so like, send me whatever you wanna have in there.

People can find you. I think I filled out a form, right? Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. That's how I got probably on here. Yeah. Yeah. Find me 

[01:28:31] Kelly: if you wanna, if you wanna. Link up. Instagram is 

[01:28:35] Jordan: candid. Collective co website is candid 

[01:28:37] Kelly: collective.co. I'm pretty in the dms for the most part, if you have questions or et cetera, et cetera.

but yeah, I exist on the 

[01:28:45] Jordan: internet like everybody in 2022. So anything else you think you think people need to know or that you wanna Oh, I do make any final Hot takes 

[01:28:52] Kelly: or No, no. Final Hot Takes. I do have a podcast called Rebels Get Revenue, which we're gonna get you on there. Oh yes. Probably in early 2023.

sort of similar vibe to Jordan's, but we kind of get more into like specific marketing tactics and stuff like that. Very, I would say individualistic things that have been successful for people, which is fun. But yeah, I have a podcast called Rebels Get Revenue. 


[01:29:13] Kelly: I think that's 

[01:29:14] Jordan: all the big.

Cool. Well, you'll all be seeing Kendall's content on all of the places that I, the Jordan's face 

[01:29:22] Kelly: is on it with a, with a Jordan approved photo. You can guarantee 

[01:29:25] Jordan: we wrote it. Yep, yep. . Yep. Unless I rewrote it, which I might have 

[01:29:31] Kelly: you. Yeah, no, you haven't really rewritten anything yet. You just like tweaked some stuff.

[01:29:36] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. You said? Yeah, We'll get there. We'll get there. It's fine. It's fine. . Okay. 

[01:29:40] Kelly: Well, this was lovely, lovely, lovely. 


[01:29:43] Jordan: excited for our, our interview on, on your show. Yes. but in the meantime, I'll 

[01:29:47] Kelly: talk to you in Slack. Talk to you in Slack. Can't wait. Cool. Right. 

[01:29:51] Jordan: Peace out.