For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit: https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode19
Tune in as we discuss scaling your business with a focus on long-term sustainability. We dive into shiny object syndrome, looking at your business as a collection of assets, and how those assets stack and build on one another to allow you to leapfrog different stages of growth.
My guest is Kelly Mosser, a seasoned startup strategist and meditation teacher who took her show on the road and started her own practice. Kelly’s work now centers around strategy (practical biz things), science (mindset and brain things) and spirit (transformational personal development, energetics and intuition).
Kelly and I really hit it off and have a lot in common in our approach to and opinions about entrepreneurship. Her insights really got me going in this episode and there are several hot takes - enjoy!
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Ep#19 - How to build your business for the long-term and let your assets work for you with Kelly
Mosser [00:00:00] Jordan: Alrighty. In today's episode, we're talking about taking the long view on scaling your business, so think about scaling from a sustainable point of view, not falling victim to shiny object syndrome. Looking at your business from the perspective of it's a collection of assets and how those assets can stack and build on one another to allow you to leapfrog these different stages of growth, then?
So my guest is Kelly Moser. Kelly is amazing. She is a seasoned start-up strategist and meditation teacher who now works the centre’s works around strategy through practical business things, science with mindset and brain things, spirit, transformational personal development, and energetics and intuition type things.
So we have a lot in common regarding our approach to what we do, our mindset around what's essential in business and what's needed for success. That it's not just strategy, it's not just mindset, but it is this beautiful balance and middle ground between the two. She has a lot of great thoughts and opinions that set me off in a significant way, but also in a ranty way.
So just. Heads up that there are a couple of hot takes in this episode. But I think we bring to some excellent insights and actions you can take in your business. So I hope you enjoy this conversation,
Welcome. Welcome, everyone. And welcome, Kelly. We are excited to have you here.
[00:01:48] Kelly: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled.
[00:01:50] Jordan: Of course. All right, so we are going to dive into some cool stuff about scaling sustainably, which is essential, obviously, and how to approach scaling from a long-term perspective rather than just short-term actions.
And then probably going to dive into some visibility stuff, but we'll see where it goes, as usual, as we do here on the podcast. So why don't we start with an intro to who you are and what you are?
[00:02:19] Kelly: Sure. So my name is Kelly Moser. I am a business strategist with ten years of experience supporting businesses of all sizes.
So I've done the Fortune 500 thing in-house. I've supported mid-size startups in that growth phase and helped solopreneurs and people who are just starting out scaling solopreneur businesses to six figures and beyond. And I have loved every second of this journey. A lot of the work that I do hinges around this idea of combining your strategy, which is very important withwellbeing wellibeginneringner work that's so important.
So the mindset work, the energetic work, because all of those things are ingredients to your success. And I sometimes think we kind of skew one way or the other, where we're super focused on strategy and neglect our well-being and mental health. We don't pay as much attention to our alignment and what our spirit wants us to do.
And then we have people on the other side of the spectrum who are very much in that. Wellness waiting space, take care of myself, but they kind of sometimes miss the harder hitting, more actionable strategy. So I like to straddle both worlds, and yeah, I'm obsessed with what I do. My background is in corporate and startup strategy, operations and business development.
So that's where I came from. And at the time when I was in that really robust, very demanding startup career was my last job. I had started my side hustle, which is kind of funny to call a side hustle because of the nature of what it was. It was work that was trying to get you out of hustle and into a better state of well-being, mentally spiritually.
So I was coaching people on that, and I kind of juggled these two worlds, lived both of these lives for about a year and a half, and eventually went all in on my business and pivoted a little bit because I had that strategy background. I found many people that were doing similar work to what I was doing were coming to me for strategy help and business help.
So now I help those people who are in the, you know, niches of coaching, wellness, health, business strategy to kind of manage all the different aspects of that, the strategy, the mindset to scale their businesses.
[00:04:32] Jordan: That's amazing, and you touched on so many things that I'm excited to talk about and that I'm also very passionate about.
I'll put it that way. I think this emotional side of the business, that's what I call it, this emotional side of business gets neglected for sure. It either gets neglected, or it gets too much focus on it, which I think is kind of what you were alluding to, which is cool. Because I feel the same way.
And anyone who is a regular listener knows that I have a monthly episode with Julia, who is my, she calls herself an everything coach. Still, like, she is my emotional support system for my business because that is so important, and it ebbs and flows and, you know, sometimes I feel like we go through months where I'm like, yeah, I feel great.
Like, yeah, maybe little stuff comes up here and there, we talk about it, we move through it, and then other times I'm like, Aw man, I think I'm burning out Julia. Like what should I do? and so it's, it's cycles, and I think that's, for me, that's been a helpful way to look at it too, is not making myself wrong if I, if I am having more emotional issues with my business at any given time or less, like, it's just, it's part of the process
[00:05:45] Kelly: you.
Absolutely. And I think it's important that we talk about it because we don't see much of it. Yeah. I think broadcasting is the perfect venue because we are more willing to talk about vulnerable things. There's something about Instagram where you feel like you kind of have to show up perfectly and polished, and we miss a lot of the behind-the-scenes, like, Oh shit, this, I'm actually really struggling this week, or this launch didn't do as well as I expected it to do, or whatever it is.
But I think it's really important to talk about it because we all experience it. And as you continue to scale, you're still going to experience it. There's no point at which you outgrow it. So if that's what you're waiting for, stop waiting. It's not going to happen. Yeah. But you know, the scale of your, what you're experiencing or the kind of things you're experiencing might change, but they will always be there.
[00:06:27] Jordan: For sure. For sure. Yeah. It's, it leaps forward and then like huge, massive dips down after that. Like, it's crazy. But, I'm glad you also mentioned the hustle piece, because I've been, I feel like I've been. Borderline ranting about this quite a bit lately on social media and in my newsletter and different places because, and even here on the podcast, I feel like I've talked about it a couple of times that I, I'm kind of like frustrated with the concept of anti hussle culture recently because I think it's been taken a little bit too far in that we're, we're almost like demonising hard work, which is like crazy to me.
And it's not all like sunshine and rainbows; you can't just, like, manifest everything in your sleep. And, like, it does take work. And just because you're working hard doesn't mean you're hustling towards burnout. So again, there's so much nuance here that I feel like people don't, don't entirely, they either don't fully explore it, or they don't fully.
Discuss it or expose it and, then it creates, I think a l,ot of confusion and issues in the space. I don't know if you feel the same, but.
[00:07:31] Kelly: Totally. I'm someone who's energized by hard work. Like I've always, it makes me feel better, not worse. And so when all of this kind of anti hustle, content and thinking was coming out, it made me feel like I was doing a lot wrong.
And I was hustling over hustling in some ways. I was cheating in some ways, but it also made me feel like, should I not be working as hard as I am ever like it, it feels good. It was very confusing, and I like hard work. I'm the most fulfilled when I'm working hard. And the best, I think is when you can strike that balance between I'm working hard and I'm creating results.
I find that when I'm hustling, I do more of something that doesn't work because I think that the solution is just more and. Doesn't work for me. But when you find, when you have something that works, and you do more of it, that can feel energizing. So I agree. I think there's a balance, and I think it's very nuanced.
[00:08:23] Jordan: Yeah. And there are seasons to your business too, and seasons of growth. And I mean, earlier this year, I took a month off for my maternity leave, which may sound like a long time to some people or not enough time to other people, whatever. Like it was a perfect amount of time for me.
Right now, I feel like I'm in definitely more like, I'm more in the trenches right now in my business just because we have a lot going on,. We have grown fast and we have a launch next mo And like there's all of there arether reasons that I feel like I'm working more than I was maybe two months ago and more than I was when I was on maternity leave.
But, I think that's okay and that, that's the thing that gets lost, I think, for me, in this conversation. And also, I'm the exact, same as you. Like I enjoy working, I work my business because I like to work, and I want to work on the things that I want to work on. And that's part of why I have a business.
I don't have a business, so that I cannot work. Like that's not why That's not why I created my company. And I am fulfilled and excited by what I'm building for reasons other than, Oh, maybe one day I'll like retire at like 45. Like, no, that's not, that's not on the plan for me. At least not right now. It's more about, like, what is, what can I build?
And that's exciting. And the fact that I have employees and people who rely on me for their livelihood is epically cool. And those are the things that excite me. Not like, Oh, what can I do so that I can just like work an hour a day, you know? Yeah.
[00:10:02] Kelly: That is such an interesting distinction. I've never thought of it that way, but a lot of the advice you receive or hear out there is with the intention of doing this so you don't have to work.
But for people like you and me, when we have and are so passionate about something, why would I not want to do that? Like, I was talking to my mom about this a week ago, and I was like, Ugh, you know, John and I wanna retire early. And she's like, What the hell would you do if you withdrew early? Yeah, you would.
You would go crazy. You were someone who was meant to create and serve. And I was like, Yeah, you're right. I would go crazy. I guess. I don't care about that at all. Yeah.
[00:10:32] Jordan: If I get this business to a point where I'm not working in it, I will probably start another business, you know? Like I know that that's what would happen is the same thing that happened to me when I.
I took a month off this time for my maternity leave with our second kiddo. The first time I was still in my nine to five, I had a ton of paid time off, and I was bored out of my freaking mind. I mean, I wouldn’t say I liked it. I wouldn’t say I liked it. I started a lifestyle blog and was working on a side hustle and trying to find projects left and right.
And so this time when I was planning for maternity leave, and I was trying to take a good chunk of time off, my husband was like, What are you doing? He's like, Just, just work. If you wanna work, like, don't put pressure on yourself because if you take off because you think you have to, you're just gonna find something else to do cuz you're gonna be bored.
It's so true.
[00:11:21] Kelly: There's only so many pina coladas you can drink and so many books you can read on the beach. Totally. And I think I what you're, what you're sharing with me right now is really powerful cuz I think for people listening to this, if you don't have the aspiration to retire at 40. That's okay.
And it doesn't mean that you're any less successful than someone who does have that goal, or you're less success minded. Success looks so different to everyone.
[00:11:41] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, of course. Like if you're listening to this, you're like, Okay, well what I don't actually like to work that much. Like I want a lifestyle business.
Awesome. Awesome. Let's do that. Like there's no right or wrong answer. And again, that's the thing that pisses me off about anti hussle culture or like whatever, like cookie cutter thing that anybody's preaching at any given time is, it misses the point that there's so many freaking ways to do this and none of 'em are right or wrong.
[00:12:11] Kelly: And not all of 'em will work for you. Exactly. Because we're all different. And you know, that is something that frustrates me a lot about this space too, is here is the one thing that you, that you need. Mm-hmm. and this will change everything. I think a lot of us are like waiting for the thing. The thing is going to be different for everyone.
Yeah. So just start trying things and eventually you'll find a thing that works for you. Hopefully a few things that work for you. But I think like waiting for this, something to fall out of the sky because so and so said that's how it's gonna go for you. That's just a waste of.
[00:12:40] Jordan: Yeah. And I think this is probably gonna be a good segue into one thing I wanna make sure we talk about, which is this long term, this long term lens on growth rather than, just short term and what's gonna be sustainable and kind of this delayed gratification a little bit.
because if I, I think if I had a motto in business, it would be like, it's an experiment. Like everything's an experiment. Yes. Like that's literally the only thing that, that's the only tried and true way to grow your business. Like it. That's it. and so, That also requires balance though, because we wanna experiment.
[00:13:15] Jordan: We wanna be able to like change our mind and pivot quickly and decide fast. Okay. Like, is this working or is it not working? But also, we don't wanna be experimenting with a hundred different things at one time and not really sticking with something long enough to know if it's working. And so let's talk about it wherever we wanna go.
[00:13:32] Kelly: Yes. Oh my gosh. I'm so glad that you share this sentiment. I literally, in all of my programs, all with all my clients, I literally teach the scientific method, like the method that we learned in seventh grade, and I teach them to treat their business as a, as a science experiment, following the steps, creating a hypothesis, running an experiment, evaluating and iterating because.
And with keeping in mind that you can only change one variable at a time. That's what they taught us in science class. That's what we gotta do here too, because this works. If it's good enough for, you know, this, the medical community, the medical research community, and you know, astronomers and all that, it's good enough for us too because it works, because you don't drive yourself crazy this way.
I found in my business early on that I treated everything like a soap opera. Everything was drama. Everything was mind drama. Any failure, micro failure or macro failure, I took as a personal failure and I realized that it was taking me out. Every time this would happen. I'd be like down and out for days because I would just be shame, spiraling, second guessing, downing myself, questioning and the amount of energy that I wasted doing that.
When I realized that the kind of the answer, the anecdote to the soap opera mentality is the science experiment mentality. It was so liberating to me. Cuz then now I just get to walk into everything with no expectation, with no, you know, nothing is riding on any of the results that I create. And I just get to say, I wonder if this will work.
Here's my hypothesis, let's try it. If it doesn't, I'll try something different and none of it means anything about me anymore. And that is the biggest gift I've
[00:15:05] Jordan: given to myself. Yeah. Aw man. Okay. There's so many freaking ways we could go with this. This is great. . So, so what's top of mind for me right now is the fact that, so our business is about, I don't know, 15 months old or so from like idea, to where we are.
And we've done quite, quite well and grown very, very quickly. And in the first, I think in the first like entire year plus, like since we got our first client, we had no client fire us. Didn't happen a hundred percent client retention rate. Like I had let go of some clients who weren't a good fit but a client had never stopped working with us for, from their choosing. Right. Which is one, an unrealistic expectation for that to continue. So I recognize that. Mm-hmm. , and I was dreading when it would change, but in this past ish, we've had three or four clients say that they're not gonna continue with us.
And for like a week or two I was like devastated and questioning everything. And like, oh my gosh, are we doing something wrong? Am I doing something wrong? And. This is where I think it's good to look at it as an experiment and can I get data from this? But also, again, with balance, just because something didn't work doesn't mean that you've actually done anything wrong, and it's something to be solved for.
So what I'm thinking about with that in particular is, okay, the sheer amount of clients that we're serving now is five or six times the amount of clients that we had previously. So keeping a 100% retention rate with five or six clients is much easier than keeping a 100% retention rate with 20 plus clients.
So of course, just statistically, there are going to be clients who are going to drop off. Additionally, we had, some pretty big changes in our offer, our, our product suite and the way that we delivered our service and the minimum number of hours that we allowed people to come in on. And so, What was really cool is if you look at it as an experiment, like, oh, there's some, there's some patterns here to the types of clients that are choosing not to move forward with us.
That's data that we could actually make informed decisions based on and say, Okay, that offer actually doesn't work because everyone who's coming through on this new offer that was X amount of months ago that we rolled out, is now dropping off and choosing not to renew. That means there's something wrong with the offer.
There's something wrong with the types of clients that it's attracting, somethings going on there that you can explore. And so again, like normal reaction to be like, Oh shit, I've done something wrong. It is it, Have I made a mistake here? Is there something wrong with what we're doing? But instead looking at it from.
is there data that we can use to change the, the way that we're structuring our offers And also not making it like, not making it mean something cuz it could just be like a statistical situation, . So that's a lot of rambling, but what are your thoughts on that?
[00:18:11] Kelly: I think it's so true. There all, there are so many factors that.
Contribute to, There are also so many external factors, like right now, I'm, you know, hearing from people who are so, disappointed in how their Instagram content is performing. Like, if you look at that outside of the context of how many updates and rollouts and changes Instagram is making, of course we're all gonna be beating ourselves up about why isn't my content performing?
But when you look at the data and you see that literally every other person who's, you know, in your niche or does something similar to what you do, is also experiencing those same things. You can tune in to larger trends that maybe aren't coming from you. But then you get the, you have the opportunity to be strategic about and respond to.
And, you know, I think so many people go through exactly what you've gone through, where the first instinct is to say, Oh, what's wrong with me or us, or whatever. And I, I challenge us in those moments when that feels like the natural first reaction. To think about how would we feel if we worked for a, a massive company and this is something we were experiencing.
We probably wouldn't internalize the blame first, but because we're so close to what we do and because it's our name on the website and all of that, it does feel so much more personal. But if you could just remove yourself from like the context of being an entrepreneur and think about how would I approach this situation if I worked?
Dell or if I worked for Amazon and this was my job and this was my, you know, domain of expertise and what I was responsible for and these were the results that I was seeing, I might feel it a little bit personally, but probably not to the degree that I'm feeling it right now. And when you can lift yourself out of that like kind of really emotionally charged environment where you are not just the person delivering the offer, the product, the service, but you're also like the name on the outside of the building, that it can kind of help also to just delineate some of that stress or anxiety or emotion that you might be feeling.
Cuz you wouldn't feel that way if you were working for someone else. You'd say, Okay, what do I need to do to fix this? Yeah. And you'd just start fixing it.
[00:20:11] Jordan: Yeah. Stakes are high. They feel. Totally. They, they totally feel high. It's, it's hard to separate yourself fully. And, and again, I think it's like, it's so important just to normalize that like, these are normal human reactions that we're all having.
And just because we're having them like, doesn't mean that you're doing anything wrong. And even like the social media thing, I'm thinking too, a few weeks ago I, I posted a reel and I was like, Dang, this is good. Like, this is a good reel. I feel really good about this. I nailed this. I posted it and like an hour after I'd posted it, I was like, Why has this not gone vi viral yet?
Mm-hmm. like, what? Like what is going on? Like, I don't understand . Mm-hmm.
[00:20:54] Kelly: totally. But when you see that, that's also happening to everyone else, everyone else is also scratching their heads going, Why isn't my really good, my really good pieces of content being blasted out? Then we can put our detective hats on and say, Okay, maybe there's, you know, something going on here that is not immediately obvious or isn't a direct result of something I'm doing.
Maybe there's a larger trend happening here.
[00:21:14] Jordan: Yes. Or, because what did happen is that that real did go viral . Oh, it did. It just, it just took a few hours maybe where we're at in the moment, on the time scale of, what we're expecting versus what has happened is just an unrealistic expectation on mm-hmm.
how quickly we think it should happen. So let's talk about that, because I really, you know, when we were talking before, before we started recording you, you mentioned this long term approach to scaling. So tell me your theory on that.
[00:21:47] Kelly: Yeah, I, I wouldn't say that this is something that I intentionally did.
It's something that I recognize I did looking back over the last four years. So what I, at different points in my business, I've looked at everything I wanted to accomplish, and I've felt so stuck and powerless because I know that I can only do so much and I wanna do it all. And really looking back, I realize that the things that I've created and the success I've created, and I'm, I'm nowhere near the, you know, I'm nowhere near done.
I'm not saying like, Oh, I can hang in, hang up my hat right now because I've created all the success that I want. But I have created a degree of success that I'm very proud of. And looking back, it's because I did one thing at a time, and when I did that thing, I got as good as I could. I made it as good as I could, and then I leveraged that thing to create my next thing.
So looking. On my journey, I've realized that I've done a lot of building assets and for me, assets have been a lot of different things, whether it's an audience or a really strong product or a really strong service or a media platform, that has then become the leverage that I have to create the next thing.
And looking back, it sort of seemed like there were times where I did not see where this was going. . I'm like, I don't really see the plot. I feel like I've lost the plot a little bit. But when I look back, I see so clearly how every single step had to happen in that order. And I couldn't jump ahead to the next step until I had really perfected the step ahead of it.
And so it kind of became this like game of leapfrog. I create one thing, I leverage that thing that becomes the leverage, that creates the next thing. And it's been really interesting for me to kind of observe that and think about how can. Unpack what I've done and reverse engineer what I've done to help other people where they might feel stuck in feeling like the next thing isn't coming.
My advice is to leverage the things that you've built because they're more powerful than you think, even if they're not directly related to what you wanna build next.
[00:23:41] Jordan: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I, I can, I can totally identify like different points in my journey where I've done this and also even the things that you do that you feel like didn't go well, you can still potentially leverage those in the future for something else.
Yes. so that's something that I think is so cool is that there's almost. No true waste of time when you're a business owner and when you're building something because like I created a course and I launched ads for it. And the course ads never really popped off in terms of like the conversion rate and like it, I essentially broke even.
I'm like, Okay, well not gonna go down that rabbit hole. But then I was still able to leverage that content multiple times since then for doing it as a live version of the program. And then it's a core piece of content that I give to my clients and that I lean on for a lot of our launches and things that we do internally.
And so there's a million things that I have used that initial course build for. , if I would've just looked at it as, I spent so much time and energy and money on building this out and then launching ads and it didn't work out and now I'm just gonna close the door and be done with it. And like that was a failure.
Like you missed the opportunity to utilize it for other things in the future. So I would love to know, cuz I can, I can just see so many places in my journey where, where I've done this, but I'd like to know from you, like what are the, what are the inflection points or the different things that you've seen that you've leveraged now?
How's that? How's that worked? Totally.
[00:25:13] Kelly: I, I think there's so much truth to what you just said. There's nothing you do is ever wasted. Even if it doesn't create the immediate result that you thought it was gonna create with that one launch or whatever, you still created a course that is now an asset that you can leverage over and over and over again.
Maybe in different ways, maybe to different audiences, maybe as, you know, an add-on or a, you know, a bonus to something rather than the, the main dish. But you have options now. So never feel like anything that you've created has gone to waste. So for me, I started on Instagram. I started actually as a blog and I didn't see a ton of success with the blog, but I started to see a lot of success with Instagram.
So I was starting to build my Instagram audience, which I didn't realize was an asset at the time. Now I do, The next thing I did was introduce a super low ticket membership, which I started to build and perfect. And saw a lot of success with, also didn't realize that was an asset, but without the Instagram audience, I wouldn't have been able to create that second asset, which was my membership.
Then I started to introduce some higher ticket offers, sprinkle them in along the way, but that membership was still my strongest asset because it's the thing that people wanted the most. Then when I started my podcast, I ended up leveraging that membership that I had created by saying, Okay, I really want my podcast to be successful out of the gate.
I don't want this to be something that I just pour time and energy into and don't see any return on. I really wanna give my podcast a fighting chance. So I invited my audience to be part of that launch process with me, and I really wanted to leverage their excitement, and so I decided to say that, okay, if we can land the show on a, a top 20 chart in any country in our category, I will make that membership free for everyone forever.
It was a, a pretty decent chunk of my monthly revenue at the time, so that was scary. But I knew that the opportunity that's, I know it's crazy. The opportunity there for me was a no brainer. I could hold on to this, this membership that I was making, you know, five or $6,000 a month, offering. Or I could leverage it.
I could let go of it, turn it into something different, repurpose it, and now make it something that drives the next stage of my business. And I also knew that, you know, when you launch a podcast, everyone says, ratings and reviews are so helpful, Do giveaways, whatever. And I knew that like offering my audience like something like, AirPods, like a lot of people do.
Like, oh, win win a pair of AirPods. I knew that wasn't gonna be enough for my audience to really show up to their full capacity. So I invited them to be part of this like massive. Movement where we were going to free make this membership free for everyone and make it so accessible. And I knew that my audience was much more likely to take massive action if they could benefit someone else in the process, not just themselves.
I know that my audience is really altruistic and I knew they would do that, and they did. And we ended up in, in the top, not just 20, but in the top 10, in like 20 countries in our category because I was able to leverage that thing that I had built that I had to then let go of, let it take on a new form, let it live a new purpose, but it worked.
And now that I have my podcast, that becomes leverage for other things for me because I have this amazing platform that I can invite people onto or you know, that I can offer, I can talk about things on. and now that has become a source of leverage for me to sell other things. So it's kind of like this weird leap frog that I didn't realize I wasn't intentionally creating, but looking back, and I really invite everyone who's listening to this.
To make a list of all the assets that you've created because you, you might not be utilizing them or leveraging them to their full capacity. and I guarantee you've got them. That's audiences, that's content that you've created. It's, you know, platforms that you utilize, like a podcast or a YouTube channel.
Those are all things that are assets for you. And are you leveraging them to move yourself closer towards your
[00:28:58] Jordan: goals? Yes. I love this. I love this. I love this. That's a cool strategy for, for a podcast launch. I've never heard of anyone doing something quite so, aggressive. Sounds bad, but like dramatic
Yeah. Like in, in a good way. Like, I think it's really cool. We. We did a huge giveaway. We didn't do AirPods. We did like stuff that made sense for the context of our audience. And like we give, I gave away an intensive and, done for you time with our team and like things that I knew that our audience would really value.
And, we too, we, we didn't launch into the top 10 because like, I don't know, I don't know that that would've been quite the accomplishment to be in the top 10 in the business category in the US anyway. We were actually number one in Trinidad and TR and Tobago there for a while. . That's so awesome. I guess, I mean, I think that just means that like three people in there listen to it, but, yeah, I, I think, I think we probably have similar styles or similar approaches to how we do things in that like, I'm not gonna do something unless I'm gonna do it.
Well. Like, I just don't, I don't have time to do stuff like that. Half asked. Yep. So, and I think that's a good. . I don't think you have to approach everything that way, and I don't think that that's necessarily a strategy that's gonna work for everyone. But I think for a lot of people it's a good frame to use to determine is this a good time for me to do this?
Is this the right time for me to do this? Because if I can't actually commit to doing it, well maybe that's because it's not the right time and I'm trying to do too many things. so I find that to be particularly helpful and. I love the action step of writing down all of your assets, and I think really trying to expand that out to like anything.
So for me, and I know it's partly because of, like, it's partly because of the niche or the, the type of business that I have, but even the stuff that I do internally is a massive. Public facing, or for my clients. So like when I launched this podcast, we documented everything and now we have an SOP for how to launch a podcast.
And if any of our clients wanna do that, like, boom, done, that's an asset because we did it. And now you can benefit from that. And same thing with when we have worked on our client onboarding processes or like launching programs. We document everything and then that went into the course that I built. And then again, even though it didn't do super well, we have those assets and then I can pull pieces out to use US freebies and lead magnets.
And like it's all, it's all connected. And to me feels just like a, it's a deeper strategy when you look at everything that you're doing or creating, or working through as an asset. I love
[00:31:40] Kelly: it. Definitely. And I think people, when you think about it through this lens, you'll realize that you have so many more assets than you thought.
So many more. When I sit down with someone for the first time and we're, you know, strategizing what they're gonna do in their business for the next three or six months, and they start talking about, you know, this course that didn't do so well, or they don't know what to do about this, and they have this membership and it's not really doing anything for them, great.
What, what do you want to work for you? How can we leverage these other things that you've created that you're not as excited about anymore? Now, maybe those things aren't your biggest revenue generators or the your biggest legacy builders, but. It's leveraged now. What do you wanna do with them? How can we move these pieces around to create, you know, a new puzzle that looks a little bit different, that ultimately is now driving you where you wanna go with the support of everything else you've created.
I think a lot of times people are like, there's like shame about things that don't work the way they wanted them to work, and they want that course to just like, go away in the closet and never be seen again. But if you can be brave enough to keep the things around you that you've created, you don't need to update them, they're fine as they are.
They're, you know, they will serve some purpose. it's funny because I'm so , I'm such a minimalist in my life. Like, I, if, if I don't use something anymore, I get rid of it. But in this case, in your business, don't get rid of things even if they're not, even if they're a little dormant right now. Because you can use them as leverage somewhere someday.
[00:32:59] Jordan: Yeah. Yes, totally. I just did a, this is gonna make, make me look bad. I don't know. Whatever. I don't care. So I, I did a presentation, like it was like a paid, training in somebody's, I think it was like a membership or something that they have, one of their offers. I did a paid training in there and I am a procrastinator.
I'm just gonna like come out with it right now. I don't like to prep things in advance. I don't even like to do formal trainings. I, I just, They're painful for me. I, I like the delivery of them, but like the prep of it I find to be tedious. And so I was like, Ugh. Like, it was like a few days away. I was like, Oh shit.
Like I really need to prepare for this presentation. Like, I can get on there and answer questions all day. But it wasn't, it wasn't that type of format. Like, I was gonna have to actually deliver the information from my side without having real time questions. And luckily I remembered, oh, I have a mini course that I created like a year and a half ago that somebody paid for me to do for their, their membership.
And I went in there and I was like, Oh man, I'm kind of like embarrassed by this thing because like it doesn't match my branding anymore. And like, there's definitely things that I've learned and would change Totally. And so I made some updates to it, but I mean, within 24 hours had my training ready to go because I had done the work on the front end on that.
And, , it got me thinking to, I was like, Oh, I probably need to redo this training, redo this mini course that's, that people can still buy and sign up for. But, it's not necessarily the best use of time right now. And so I, I totally resonate with that and think that a lot of people listening are probably like, Oh yeah, I'd never put that thing out there.
Or, I took it down because it's not like fully updated and perfect and like, No, leave it, It's still valuable and you never know what the value people are gonna get from it, and you can redo it when you got some downtime whenever that happens.
[00:34:48] Kelly: Absolutely. And if you've got a slow season of sales, like, or you don't have a launch coming up and you would love to generate some extra revenue, Take a look back at all those assets and see if you can like shop them around, like, Hey, I'll come into your mastermind and lead a training on this.
What do you think? Like you have so much content already prepared. I feel the same way about creating social media content like upcycle, repurpose, use the things again, like I feel like we're so sometimes stressed about coming up with a new idea. A new idea isn't always what you need. Sometimes you need to say this, the thing that you're known for in a new way, or just say it again.
I think there's a lot of, we're becoming generalists a little bit in the way that we create content because we're so worried about keeping up with the algorithm and I gotta post something every day and instead of wondering what are 120 new things I could talk about, how can you say the same thing that really matters to you?
That really establishes your brand, establishes your leadership? How can you say that one thing in 20 different ways? Yes, that's gonna do more for you, for your brand and for your business than constantly trying to generate something new. Lean on what you've already posted, re you know, bring it back to life, reformat it, talk about it in a new way.
It's just like that. I think that constant having to produce more, more, more is actually really diluting a lot of our potency, a lot of our messages, a lot of our brands. And ultimately it's not generating sales for us. It's just, Oh, here's a new thing I'm gonna talk about
[00:36:12] Jordan: today. . Yeah. A thousand percent.
Yeah. I think everybody. Gosh, I mean, we could beat the dead horse of repurposing. Like everybody knows they need to be repurposing their content, but they don't do it. Like, I, I'm bad about it too. I actually just hired a content writer cuz I'm like, I'm not gonna do that. Mm-hmm. , I tried to do, I tried to do it myself.
I'm not gonna do it. It's not gonna happen. My priority is my podcast. That's the one place that I show up, I do my thing and it, it creates literally all of my other content. That's it. Yeah. Or like me sending a couple of voice note grants to my content writer and then boom, we're done. Yeah. And obviously I know not every week everybody can hire a content writer and you'll get there, but in the meantime, you've gotta be repurposing your content.
And the thing that I find not, it doesn't trip everybody up, but I consistently hear this come up from my clients as like, Oh, well I already talked about that. I'm like, Yeah, okay. Redundancy is the point. Like, if you don't, if you don't feel like you're being obnoxiously redundant, you're doing the marketing wrong.
[00:37:14] Kelly: It's so true. Yeah, it's so true. What is that marketing statistic? I don't know if this is still current, but it's like you need to hear, customers need to hear something eight times before it's even on their radar. One of my mentors at my startup job, we would, you know, always be trying to roll out, you know, a new process and this, a lot of this was applying internally.
So these were people whose job it was to pay attention to what we were saying. And the CEO would always say, Just when you feel like you're starting to shout and scream, that's when people are just starting to hear you. Yes. . And I was like, Oh, really? Because you are the only person who hears everything you say.
You are literally the only person on earth who hears everything that you say. Even the people that you employ don't hear everything you say. Yeah. Yes. And it turns not to hear everything you say. So when you're getting to that point where you're like, Wow, I'm really to your point, starting to feel obnoxious about what I'm saying.
Like people are just starting to hear you.
[00:38:05] Jordan: Exactly. Exactly. I'm always shocked by the amount of times that people would be like, Oh, I didn't know you did that, or I didn't know that. Like even people Yeah. Internally, team members like, Oh, I didn't know that we had this thing. Or like, like, Oh my gosh, this is terrible.
Like that means that essentially nobody knows if you didn't know . Right.
[00:38:24] Kelly: It's crazy. It's so true. You see every, everything you share on social media, you, you know, But no, nobody else does. And also if they did, they saw it maybe for a second while they were in line at the grocery store and they were unpacking and they weren't paying attention.
Yep. Say it four times more than you think you need to say it because if it annoys someone, then they, the unfollow button is right there. You know, they, if it, and I don't think it does annoy people. I think they're appreciative to hear it over and over.
[00:38:48] Jordan: Yeah. What I think of like, what comes up for me, cuz even , I feel like I give a lot of disclaimers on this podcast of like, Oh, I know I've talked about this before, or if I said this before, you're probably gonna get annoyed of me saying this and I probably shouldn't do that.
Because if I think about the type of content that I like to consume, It is redundant and I seek it out because it's talking about the things that I know I need to hear or I like to hear. And even though I already know it and I've heard them say it a million times, like I listen to this. It's the same topics, it's the same ideas, it's the same concepts, it's the same everything.
And I like it. I like hearing that and I think everybody is that way, or at least that's what I'm gonna tell myself. And I'm gonna stop making that disclaimer. .
[00:39:28] Kelly: Well, I think it's, I think it makes the potency higher. Mm-hmm. , because, so I, I listen to Gary V sometimes. I know a lot of people have a lot of different opinions about Gary.
I kind of like him because he's like a little gritty and he's totally redundant with everything he says. And he said one time in one of his interviews or something, someone said like, Why are you always saying the same thing over and over? That's all you do. You say the same five things over and over.
And he said, Because you're not doing them yet. I will stop saying them. Yeah. When you all start doing them . Yeah. I was like, oh, that's true. Until everyone is is on board with the things that work. You gotta keep talking about
[00:40:01] Jordan: things that work. Yeah. Oh man, I love that. I'm gonna steal that. I mean, I'm not gonna steal it as my own, but I'm gonna start telling people that cuz that is, that is the thing like until you're doing it and or until it fully sinks in and you're like bored of it and then like stop listening.
If you're , if you're over it and you're doing it right, like then maybe this isn't the place for you anymore. Not that I want anybody to leave. That's, but Alright. So let's talk more about this like long term approach to growth. We talked about the leap frog concept. tell me how do you figure out.
What is the thing? The one thing, if you're just focusing on one thing at a time, like how do you figure out what that should be? I listen to a lot.
[00:40:39] Kelly: I listen to my intuition a lot, and I know that's kind of a fluffy answer, but honestly, I feel it in my body when something is right. Yeah. And I will say, sometimes I've listened to my intuition and it's been right for a season or right for a minute.
And at the time I'm like, Oh, I shouldn't have done this. But now looking back at that leapfrog journey, I get it. I had to do it at that time. It wasn't a for everything or it wasn't the thing for the long term strategy, but it was an important piece of the puzzle. I am someone who's very in touch with my intuition.
My body. My, My body told me to quit my first three jobs that I had. Wow. Because it, you know, it was just one day I woke up and I was like, I cannot walk towards the door. . My, my legs are not moving me towards my office. And yeah, anxiety has always been a really strong communicator in my body. For me, when something starts to feel like I'm dreading it, that's a good sign that.
Not the right thing. I think for me it's a really very, a constant dance between what feels definitely like not the right thing, and those little zaps of excitement and ener energy when I feel so lit up and passionate. It's like, just follow what you feel passionate about right now, because there's a message in that, and it might not be the forever thing, but it's the right now thing.
The thing that you're most excited about right now is the right now thing. So, And
[00:41:56] Jordan: right now is just right now, like it's not forever. Like you can change your mind like tomorrow. That's okay. Totally. Do you know your human design?
[00:42:03] Kelly: I'm a projector. I'm a You're a projector. Projector.
[00:42:05] Jordan: Interesting. Interesting.
[00:42:08] Kelly: So I get those hits that's like immediate. I can discern it right away. I'm not someone who needs to sleep on things. I don't need a full moon cycle to determine what I'm gonna do if I feel it in my body in that. . I have to, I just have to do it.
[00:42:21] Jordan: It's very interesting. I can't calm down until I do it. Yeah.
I'm like not a, I'm not an expert by any means, on human design, but I am, I'm a manifesting generator, and so like, state my sacral is like my authority. So like when people talk about gut, like that is like legit my gut. Yeah. Like that is the intuition. That is the, the feeling. and I, and I'm, I think my strongest sense is feeling.
So I, I have a lot of like, feelings about things. and yeah, I'm, I'm the same way. It's either like a hell yes or a no. Like I, that that is very, a very little literal reaction to how, I decide what to do. And it is a body reaction. I'm all about transparency on this podcast, so I'll tell people kind of something that I'm processing through right now, which is, it relates to this Leap Frog concept.
I've built this business as an agency, like that's how we got started. We do done for you services, we do strategy and implementation and we've grown very fast because of that. But I see that as actually the foundation that we needed in order to be able to stack on other things that it couldn't have been done in a different order.
Like we couldn't have launched our membership. We couldn't have added a mastermind component. That is unlike any mastermind literally ever. Like I haven't seen anyone doing a mastermind. That includes strategy and implementation. It's not a thing and, but we couldn't have done that if we didn't have the legitimacy and the credibility and the expertise and the team and the, all of the things that we have because we're an agency.
and I've been thinking a lot lately about, I don't think I wanna grow the agency side anymore. I think that that served its purpose and I've loved doing that. And, and the approach to the, the agency side of things up till now has been very much like, Okay, we're at capacity. Let's add more team. Let's do more.
Let's open up more capacity. And this last month I've been like, Huh, maybe actually we don't have to keep growing that side of things. Maybe it can stay at a status quo and be a really core piece of what we do forever, but be more of an exclusive, smaller piece of what we do forever. It doesn't have to be the thing that exponentially grows over the years.
And I think that those are the types of things that you can't really figure out until you're doing it. And then you get to the point and you have that like gut reaction of. . I actually don't wanna, don't wanna make that any bigger right now. Maybe I'll change my mind in six months, but for right now, it feels good how it is, you know?
[00:45:01] Kelly: Yeah. And you wouldn't have been able to make that call if you hadn't spent this time, spent this, this exact amount of time, this exact amount of energy, this exact amount of investment. Like, there's a tipping point where you've, you're done with the, the learning mode. It's like Facebook ads.
Like I'm in learning mode and all of a sudden I can, I can come to a conclusion about what the next step is. And I really think that sometimes you need to go through that trial period, learning period, doing experimenting, period. And then, then you can decide. And it's awesome that it's changing. I think. I feel like there's so much, people are so hard on pivoting.
Like if you're pivoting, it's like, Oh, why are you pivoting? It's like, No, I'm just evolving. I'm expanding. I've learned something. Yeah. I have a, you know, something, there's a new spark in my heart that's, that I'm really excited about. And what are you arguing for if you're arguing against Pivoting and evolving?
[00:45:49] Jordan: right. Yeah, I mean I think that that's it, it sounds weird to say, but I think pivoting is, is actually status quo for business ownership. Like that's, that's always gonna be there. It has to be. so I wanna, I wanna pick on, not pick on, but I wanna pick your brain on your membership because it's not typical that I see people start with a membership.
And we've had, we,we have a client who was on the podcast, her name's Amanda. She's amazing. She, she started with a membership and, I think that's a really unique approach and she's been able to grow something very cool. And so I'd love to. Why you started with a membership, how you grew a membership, because again, people don't usually start with that because it requires a decent level size audience to, to do a membership and to do it well.
So, mm-hmm. , Walk me through that. Yeah, so
[00:46:40] Kelly: I had, I mean, it wasn't a strategic move to start with a membership. It was what I could manage while juggling my full-time strategy job that had me working 70 hours a week. I knew I couldn't take, you know, one-on-one clients that required a lot of me, but I knew that I could create content every month, and I knew that I could.
You know, spend six hours a month creating that content, uploading it. It felt like the lowest lift thing for me, and it felt like the least risky thing because, you know, with a longer term contract, I was not ready to leave my full-time role and like, not even close. So I just started because that was what I felt like was the right fit for the value that I could offer.
I was, you know, really big into this first part of, first iteration of my business was a lot about mental wellness, nourishing your nervous system. So it was a lot of meditations, journal prompts, like things that you could tap into when you needed and tap out of when you didn't need it. So it was very low commitment, very low risk for on both sides.
It was low risk for the people that were joining the membership. And it was low risk for me because I didn't have the time. And honestly it was a, a low ticket membership and it just grew through word of mouth. I had, I was coming into it. Maybe like six or 7,000 followers on Instagram who had built really good relationships with relationships.
First was always my, you know, marketing strategy was just talk to people and see what they need and then offer them that. And this was like, this was like two and a half years ago, three years ago, three years ago now, when there wasn't a lot of this available. There wasn't a lot of this, like nobody was talking about what the nervous system was.
No one was really like, there was no centralized place to find kind of spiritually minded soul first materials like this content. So it felt like the most natural thing for me. As I started to pivot more full time into my business, I could, I recognized right away this was, you know, going to be a very heavy lift strategy if it was going to be the core thing for my business forever, which is why I felt so ready.
And okay with the decision to make it free. and at that point I had started, you know, taking on one-on-one clients and leading group programs so it didn't feel like, you know, as much of a, a loss to make it free and to make it more accessible. But yeah, I, I don't know if, I wouldn't necessarily say that I would recommend starting with a membership.
It's kind of just what happened for me, what unfolded for me, because I didn't know any better and I'm, I turned out fine, you know, so if you do start there and you're like, Oh shit, maybe I shouldn't have started here. No, you could be fine too. it's just kind of an accident and just continued to iterate and experiment and ask myself what was working and what wasn't.
And yeah, that's just kind of how it evolved.
[00:49:24] Jordan: Yeah, I, I always love hearing. Not necessarily origin stories, like that's more broad, but like, what was that thing that got you started? And I'm actually thinking of doing like some type of mini-series on the podcast about like, how'd you get your first client?
Like, cuz there's so many different ways that people get their first client. and, and then how'd you get like your third and your fourth client? You know, like that, that seems where, where there, it seems to me like there's a big shift from like your first one or two clients to then like, okay, with how, then how did you keep going after that?
Mm-hmm. , because that's a different approach. And like we started, we didn't get our first two clients with ads, but we started pretty quickly. after, after I came up with this business idea on ads. Like we, I threw down on ads like almost immediately because I felt like the offer was validated enough and I was like all in on it.
And like you, I've, I've been running a business, one way or another for a decade. And so I've been in this space for a long time and I was like, Okay, well, at the point of, at the point that I am in my life right now, I would rather throw down money instead of trading my time . Like, I don't have, I don't, I wanna shortcut this.
And not to say that ads can do that for everyone right off the bat, but for us it was like a really great strategy to have from the beginning. So I always love hearing how you got started and it's cool. okay, so we talked about long term growth. . I'm curious, your approach to avoiding shiny object syndrome, is that something that you still deal with and how do you, how do you put things on the back burner that aren't priority now?
Oh gosh. It's a great
[00:50:59] Kelly: question. I struggled with this a lot when I started like a lot, it was poison for me, . It was like, Oh my gosh, hopping from this thing to that. Can I, you know, this isn't working the way I thought. I, I didn't have the discipline to sit with something that felt uncomfortable, that felt like it wasn't working as optimally as it could be, and my solution for that was to just jump ship and start the next thing.
And I don't deal with that as much anymore because I am much more strategic about what I do and why I start things. I also really kind of like pass everything that I do through the intuition check and making sure that I am okay with whatever the outcome is here. I'm okay with this being a dud for three months.
If I'm not willing to be okay with that, then I know it's not the right time to start that thing. I'm much more in tune with things that feel really unique to me. I think I fell into a trap about a year and a half ago of just like, looking around me and, and looking too closely for like, looking too closely at context clues like, you know, the success leaves clues.
I was looking too closely and didn't. Actually pass anything, anything through this gut test, which was like, do I even wanna do this? Does this, do I really wanna have, you know, a, whatever, This is just an example. Like, do I wanna have a high value mastermind? Like I didn't really stop to think about whether that's something that I wanted.
I just thought that was the only way to do it. So there was a lot of shiny object syndrome. There was a lot of, if this is what's working for everyone else, then this is probably the only thing that will work for me. So it was kind of this shiny object. Met with like a scarcity mindset. Met with a, just not trusting myself mindset that I didn't know anything about the online business space.
I knew about the startup space, you know, which was a very different business model. But I was kind of just like, All right, well this is what everyone else is doing. I guess this is what, this is what I have to do. And I felt burnt out really fast doing the things that I had just seen other people doing.
And now I think I'm much more in a, in a place where I trust myself a lot more. I don't sign up for programs that, you know, walk me through this is exactly how to implement this one strategy that's going to change your business forever. And it's this, or it's nothing. I'm, I'm a little bit more selective, I think.
If I'm going to invest in someone or work with someone, I wanna make sure that that person wants to hear what my goals are and not just tell me what my goals should be and this is how I should achieve them. because I'm smart and I think I've, I've now leaned into that like, I'm smart. I can figure things out, I can create things out of nothing, and if something isn't feeling good for me, then there's just some misalignment there and I have to be willing to sit with it and try something new if it's not working.
So, shiny object was hard for me, but I think just being willing to like, sit with something until you're positive that it's either going to work eventually or it's not the right thing for you, instead of just jumping ship, sitting with that discomfort of, this isn't working the way I want it to right now, but I'm okay with that and I'm gonna, you know, do what it takes to make it work.
[00:54:00] Jordan: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I just always go back to like this experimental thing and I, again, I. I love trusting my gut. So I, I run most things through there. and I, I feel like I, I know my bandwidth pretty well. I have a pretty good sense of like, eh, that's gonna, that feels like too much. which I think is actually a learned skill.
So if anybody's like thinking like, Oh, I don't know , I always get into the situation where I take on too much. Well, it takes practice. It takes practice and, and having to drop things. and once you do that over and over and over again for years, you get better at recognizing on the front end if something's gonna fit into the time frame that you're giving it or stack on top of the stuff that you're already juggling.
So I think that comes with time. but also, yeah, like the experimental piece of things. So like for us, with our membership, I was like pretty anti membership for a while actually. I felt like they were a fairly big lift for the cost, for the amount of money coming in and required just as much marketing and just as much effort on the front end, but then had way more problems on the back end with like retention.
And so that was always my approach and I don't necessarily think any of those things have changed for me. but at some point a membership presented itself as an obvious choice for us because of our infrastructure and what we can, what we can provide. And our membership is very different. I, I, I don't know if you feel this way, but I, I'm, I'm pretty anti cookie cutter approaches, which just sounds like you are too.
And, and maybe so much so that I go to the extreme and if I feel like that's what everybody else is doing, I'm like, Yeah, I don't wanna do that. That, no, that's not gonna happen. Even like with my new content writer, she rolled out this email strategy. She's like, Okay, we're gonna do three emails a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
I was like, Yeah, nope, we're not gonna do that. Because I feel like everybody sends their emails Monday, Wednesday, Friday. So we're gonna come up with a different strategy. . Mm-hmm. , which is, I don't know, good thing or bad thing, I don't know. But, our membership is very different in that you don't. Any resources, I'm not gonna give you a single resource unless it's a freebie that you can already get onto my, on my website, what we're gonna do is calls.
So we have like four plus calls live every single week, and it's just a different style of membership. And, and I like that. And, but we experiment it with it. I did a soft launch, We didn't have anything prepped. I was like, Let's do it. Let's throw it out there, see if people want it. And we had eight people sign up.
I was like, Okay, I feel good about that. I feel good about that and let's, let's roll it out. Let's try it. And it has been amazing and our current clients love it. And the people who like signed up and paid love it. Like, Okay, we're going all in on this. but you can't know that. You can't know that until you just throw it out there and start doing.
Totally. I think
[00:56:55] Kelly: there's also this, like, this misconception that everyone else has it figured out, and you're the last one to have it figured out. It's like, just because they're doing it doesn't mean it's working for them, you know? Yeah. And I, I think that you're, your refreshing take on memberships is so awesome because you have this mindset that says, Oh, if everyone else is doing it , I'm gonna do something else.
I think that's brilliant because like, I think that's a, a big misconception just about the whole online business world, period. If she's doing it, it's working for her. No, she might not, not have figured out what else to do. Like she might just, she might feel so stuck in that thing that she's doing, and she might be praying for an answer, and you're now looking to her to copy her.
When you don't, you're just assuming that it's working. You don't even.
[00:57:40] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, man. You're touching on this huge beef that I've got with the online space that I've been, I've been talking about a lot lately. And I freaking love this space. I love being a female entrepreneur. I love working with female entrepreneurs.
I love everything about this space. And, and also I hate some things about this space, which is the lack of transparency and the fact that everybody's selling us something. Everybody is selling you something. And if they're making it seem like they're not selling you something, they're full of it. They are selling you something and, and like, that's okay, that's okay.
But also that means that people have to be b borderline or flat out dishonest with you about how things are actually going in your, in their business. And that was the whole purpose of this podcast to. To, to do this podcast in a very different way in that like, I'm not gonna have people on here where we talk about what they sell, because if we're talking about what they sell, they have to have their guard up, they have to have their walls up, they have to come off polished.
They have to say that the thing that they do and sell is awesome and it works. And it all like, but that's bullshit. It's bullshit. Like, it just flat out is, and there are so many, there are so many people who are selling you something that are not doing well in their business. They're not paying themselves, they're not making money.
And it, because of the way that this space works, we can't be honest about it. And it's really frustrating. Yep.
[00:59:11] Kelly: And I think so much of the like sales tactic is look at my success. Like, look at my, the screenshot of my bank account. Like that doesn't mean anything to me. That just means that I don't, I don't even know what that means.
That doesn't mean that I'm gonna have success. Working with you. It's like selling your own, your own success can, I think, to a degree, be a selling point for you. But it can't be the only thing, Like it cannot be the only thing that we're listening to as consumers too. You gotta look. What does this person's experience beyond this?
Like, what have they done outside of teaching you how to do this thing? You know? Yeah. Do they know how to do this thing? Have they implemented this? Have they, you know, I think there's, it's like, I don't know. It can feel, I don't know. I, I know, you know, you know. Oh, I know you're thinking the same things. . which, anyway.
[01:00:01] Jordan: Yeah. I don't even, It's, it's interesting. It, it's interesting and I just think like, It's funny cuz I, I've been, it's not funny, but it is. I, I've been talking to a couple, like friends, coaches, mentors, just people in this space who get it and I'm like, okay, I know things are bad when I have people telling me, Wow, what you've done is really impressive.
And I'm like, really it is because I didn't hit seven figures in half a day, so I don't feel like what I've done is that impressive? And they're like, No, no, no, no, no. Like these revenue and profit numbers are like very rare for where you're at in your business. And I'm like, really? Because every day I feel like I haven't grown fast enough and I should be paying myself more and I should be blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And like that shit, that like garbage going through my brain if I'm actually doing well. Like, what are people thinking who are not doing well? Like I think back to my first business where I didn't pay myself a freaking penny. Mm-hmm. a penny. I did not ever pay myself. Now I did, after I sold my bus, I sold the business.
So I got some money from it, but not nearly enough to make the years of work worth it, quote unquote. Other than the fact that I got the experience. The experience is what I got from that business, not the money. And so, Oh my gosh. Like if you're, if you're not making money, you're probably just like doing normal, which is crazy.
Yep. And scary .
[01:01:40] Kelly: And at the same time you'll be, you'll get onto Instagram and you'll feel like everyone is making a million dollars, except for literally
[01:01:46] Jordan: everyone is making seven figures and they did it overnight. Yeah. Yeah. What is that?
[01:01:52] Kelly: I don't know. I also, like, I hope everyone recognizes the difference between profit and revenue.
Like, I think a lot of people are are messaging, I have a seven figure business. You have a business that you've created and, and some people definitely are like, I am absolutely not trying to take away, but there are some very cagey , if you read between the lines with what people are saying. They're saying, I've created seven figures in the five years that I've been doing my business revenue.
Like, that's not a seven figure business, right? It's, that's not, Do
[01:02:20] Jordan: people, do people say they created a seven figure business when it's like cumulative over five years? Yes. Not, Yes. Stop. I swear. Swear.
[01:02:27] Kelly: No, I swear. Yes and yes, a hundred percent. And if you, if you like, actually read between the lines of what people are saying, oftentimes that's what they mean.
Or, or, or that's what they're actually saying. Or they'll say, you know, I have a seven figure business, but they spent a $500,000 on ads. That is also not a seven figure business. I, I think that there's, I don't know, maybe there's that, that. That is a seven figure business. But the, the implication of what they're,
[01:02:54] Jordan: Yeah, there's context missing, right?
[01:02:56] Kelly: For sure. What they're trying to tell you is not always as simple as what you're hearing. And I think as a, as a, a receiver of the information, you've gotta be discerning, you know? Totally. It's, it's okay to ask questions. It's okay to probe a little deeper if that is, you know, something. Like the main headline for why you should buy something from them.
Like, well, tell me more about that. Yeah. You know, I think, and I don't think that you're in the wrong for asking those kinds of questions.
[01:03:23] Jordan: Yeah. You may not get, you may not get the answers. No. You all get, you Totally ask em. Totally Go for it. Let me know what you find out. Wow. I, so I, I do see, I've totally seen people talking about like, Oh, I've, since I started my business, I've made, you know, like 2.2 million or whatever.
Like, cool. Like, that is like, as long as you give the context, like that's the thing that I have the big beef with is of course, if you're just flat out lying, like, not cool. But I, I think the thing that often is happening is people are making claims without context and. Even, even beyond that, they may not even recognize the context and, and I feel like people are selling off of these claims, which is why I always talk about the fact that we do ads.
We do ads. I heavily invested in ads at the beginning. I still now, like, I turned them off for a really long time, but I'm now heavily investing in ads again. And that's a big thing that like grows my audience and grow It grows my email list, it grows my Instagram, like it that is there and like, I will not lie about that.
but I feel like so many people, and I could be wrong, but I feel like a lot of people in the space who have done big revenue numbers quickly, kind of like lucked out. Like there was some kind of fluke situation going on or a massive investment in paid traffic or, like their network like was, you know, I don't know.
[01:04:51] Jordan: Someone brought this up to me the other day, which was like, I don't know, I don't wanna name names, like she's not even in our space, but like someone who had talked about and like portrayed this, like they, they portrayed themselves as being kind of like from humble beginnings, but honestly were like, rub and elbows with people in like a pretty big industry and like high up in the industry and like, that's not cool, dude.
Like, that's not what most people are doing. They don't have connections like that. Like just be real about the context. That's all I'm asking.
[01:05:24] Kelly: Yeah, I agree. I agree.
[01:05:27] Jordan: Mm. Well, this turned into a little bit of a rant. Sorry about that. . Oh, I
[01:05:32] Kelly: think it's important. I think it's like the stuff that we all might be like kind of thinking about, but maybe are afraid to ask or afraid to say.
And you know, it's not to, it's not to bring anybody down. Like I want every, I want every entrepreneur to succeed. I want every woman to succeed. Yes. And I think that when we are not approaching what we're doing with authenticity, we are inhibiting others from succeeding. And I think it's like, it's got this awful domino effect where it just feels like there are two Stratos spheres of people, one who are doing extremely well, and the rest of us who are still trying to figure it out.
And I think when we create this illusion that there's this complicated secret formula between where we are and where they are, it, it's does nothing positive for the people who are in this stratosphere, right? It's, it's only demoralizing and it makes you question yourself and question what you're doing.
Whereas if those people would be maybe a little bit more transparent, Here's how I got, here's how I got here. Here's, you know, I did have a leg up. This really helped me. I'm not gonna lie about that. I'm not gonna hide that from you. That could be really helpful for people who are still very much trying to figure it out to hear.
So, you know, I just invite you, wherever you are on your journey listening to this, how can you bring a little bit more of that authenticity to the table and give people, give someone who's maybe three steps behind you, a peek behind the curtain, because that helps so much. It helps so much more than you think when you're honest about what you struggle with and you know what challenges you've faced and how you overcame them and what really keeps you up at night.
Still like that humanizes this whole process for all of us, and I think that's how we're gonna succeed when we make this like a, a humanized journey that we can all be. Authentic and honest with each other about on the way up.
[01:07:16] Jordan: Yeah. Mm. You said that so much more eloquently than I did when my rant and you capped it with an action step, which is like, Chef's Kiss.
Great job. . I love it. , I, yeah, just to clarify, I am not down on anyone's success. Like go, go for it. Good on you. Love that. You made seven figures no matter how much you, how you did it. Like fabulous. I just don't want that to be like, the expectation that makes everybody else feel like shit, .
[01:07:42] Kelly: That's it.
Right. And if you did it, tell us how. Like for real. Yes.
[01:07:45] Jordan: For real. For real. Yes. Yeah. I feel like a lot of people just don't know how that, that they, they don't know what they did. Right. , for real, I feel like a lot of people have, especially if there was any kind of luck involved, which I would argue there pretty much is for everybody luck involved if you've made it, And it's hard to see that.
It's really hard to see that, I think, especially if you look back and, and you're not in it. Yep. Yeah. All right. Well this has flown by. We didn't even get to talk about visibility, because you, you like brought up way too many hot button issues for me that I had to go, I had to go off on, so, Whoops. do you wanna touch on anything?
Like, we'll have all of your information, your links, your everything in the show notes. Do you wanna touch on anything specific before we wrap, either that we've talked about or that we haven't talked about?
[01:08:32] Kelly: No, I think my, my one thing that I will share is the one mindset shift that really helped. Step into a a, a place of like really embodied confidence.
And if you wanna learn more about this, come follow me on Instagram and we can chat on Instagram because I do share a lot about this there. But this idea that the visibility and opportunities to be more visible are not rewards for the success that you've created. Because I think when we think about that, we'll never feel ready for them, right?
Because we'll always be moving towards that next goal, that next benchmark. We're not, we're not there yet. We just hit this one. We gotta move to the next one before we can step out and be seen by more people. And I really encourage you to think about those visibility opportunities as tools to create success rather than as rewards for the success that you've already created.
And that will change the game for you when you're thinking. More opportunities, bigger stages, bigger audiences, bigger messages. They are tools to get you where you wanna go, not rewards for what you've already done. So if that's intriguing to you, definitely come connect with me on Instagram and we can chat more about that there.
[01:09:41] Jordan: I love it. And I know you're big on like podcast guesting in particular, and I am too. And we do, we do podcast guest pitching for almost all of our clients because I think that it's such an important no brainer strategy for essentially everyone. and big fan. And, and I, I agree that. You don't wait to do podcast guesting when you feel like you've got like a legitimate business and something that you're like really proud of.
You start that shit like yesterday. Like you mm-hmm. , there are always shows that you can get on exactly where you are right this second. And I think that's the most important way to approach it because you're not gonna be ready for those big shows for when it's time. If you didn't do the smaller shows or you didn't take the, the guest speaking opportunity that was free in somebody's Facebook group or whatever.
Like, I have done a billion of those things over the last decade and all of them were critically important for me to get confidence for having my own podcast and for doing paid trainings in people's groups and eventually doing speaking gigs and whatever else it's gonna be, in the future when as we continue to grow.
But the, the importance of those. Those, those smaller things, those initial things, often gets overlooked. And it does feel like it's a down the line strategy once I've made it. Mm-hmm. . Nope,
[01:10:59] Kelly: I totally agree with you. You gotta get your sweaty pits and your dry mouth and your word vomiting out because it's the only way to the next part or the next iteration, the next evolution where you feel more confident.
And that's, and the best way to do that is to get interviewed. So go do
[01:11:13] Jordan: it. For sure. For sure. Yeah, you, and just like finding your style and your voice and like those types of things are, you can't, you can't do that until you've done like a dozen podcasts, interviews, you know, So I'm sure you've got some good resources.
So, so we can maybe link, link some things in the show notes that people can find and obviously find you on Instagram, find you in all the places. But this was so fun. Thank you for coming
[01:11:36] Kelly: on. Thank you for having me. This was a really great conversation. I'm so grateful to be connected with you now. Yeah.
[01:11:41] Jordan: So glad. Thanks.