Easy Scaling with Jordan Schanda King

How to scale a business that's easy-ish and why sometimes that means slowing down

October 16, 2022 Jordan Schanda King / Aimee Browne Episode 17
Easy Scaling with Jordan Schanda King
How to scale a business that's easy-ish and why sometimes that means slowing down
Show Notes Transcript

For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit: https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode17

Tune in as we discuss scaling a business and what that actually requires of you. We're talking broadly about leadership, how you show up with your clients, and not being the bottleneck in your business. We also talk about congruence - the idea of showing up for yourself and your business in the way that you say you want to and/or that you expect your clients to show up.

My guest is Aimee Browne, a Business Coach & Scaling Strategist. She helps aspiring multi-6 and 7-figure business owners turn their overwhelming visions into structured strategies and scalable businesses to reach their biggest goals - without sacrifice.

Topics discussed:

  • What does a CEO actually do?
  • The talent, the CEO, and the visionary hats business owners wear
  • What has to change or give as you scale
  • The definition and subjectivity of scaling
  • There's no right or wrong way, but there are easier ways to run your business
  • Using your business as a mirror or window into your personal shit
  • Leaning into the hard things
  • Proximity, codependency, and potential downsides of group containers
  • The contagion of negativity in group containers
  • The importance of expansion and inspiration in groups
  • Making big shifts in your business, your brand, and your offers
  • The importance of stillness, pausing, and stepping back
  • Sharing from the scar rather than the wound
  • Going inward and limiting consumption when making big changes
  • Finding the right support and mentor for where you are
  • Is it required that you grow a team?
  • You can’t get away from stepping into a leadership role
  • Why having a team can be expansive
  • How to stay in integrity and be a leader for your clients

Connect with Jordan Schanda King:

Connect with this week’s guest, Aimee Browne:

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Ep#17 - How to scale a business that's easy-ish and why sometimes that means slowing down with Aimee Browne

[00:00:00] Jordan: All righty. In today's episode, we are talking about scaling your business and what that requires of you. So we're talking broadly about how you show up in your containers with your clients, not being the bottleneck in your business. We talk about this idea of congruence, which I think is excellent, and just ensuring that you are showing up for yourself and your business.

In the same way, you are asking and expecting your clients to show up. So that's a fun one. We talk about leadership, which is so important and how that can show up with the team, but how it can also show up with your clients and with yourself. So this is a great one. My guest is Aimee Browne. Aimee is a business coach and scaling strategist.

She helps to aspire multi-six and seven-figure business owners to turn their overwhelming visions into structured strategies and scalable businesses to reach their big goals without sacrifice, which is fantastic. We love it. And Aimee and I have a lot of similarities in our expertise, zones of genius, the things that we like to tinker with, and the things that we want to talk about.

And so, this was fun for me, and I hope you enjoyed this conversation.

 Hello. Hello everyone. And hello, Aimee. Welcome to the 

[00:01:19] Aimee: podcast. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. 

[00:01:22] Jordan: Yeah. So we're going to talk about scaling generally, and we're going to see what comes up. Yeah. Okay. So first, before we dive in and figure out what we're going to talk about, why don't you just give us a smidge of context about who you 

[00:01:38] Aimee: are and what you do? A little smidge in mm-hmm.

So yeah, Aimee Browne, business coach, scaling strategist. I had a 15-plus year career as an executive assistant in, in my corporate job, so being in boardrooms with CEOs, et cetera. and so, you know, seeing how companies strategised firsthand and being a part of that, which I loved, got a real passion for business.

[00:02:03] Aimee: And then seeing the flip side of that, of, okay, how do we cascade that? How do we implement it? And also working alongside kind of the execs, the leaders, and seeing how they perform. You know, team operations, all of that good stuff. Absolutely love it. However, I had a massive burnout, and you know, I'd never taken a sick day of my life one day to three months being out completely.

Anxiety, depression, all of the things, a new perspective on life, and, you know, Realized about myself that I am relentlessly ambitious. That part of me will never switch off. However, the price I pay for achieving success in aver commerce, I was very passionate about, like, burnout is not, is not the price I'm willing to pay, to achieve those things.

And I don't want to miss those. Like when you have dark times, you get perspective on like those small things in life experiences with your children or just a walk in nature. Like all of these things, when you are rushing through life, you don't, you don't stop to smell the roses if you know that, that phrase.

So that gave me a new perspective and I kind of started. My Instagram account is really sharing about mental health, and I was like, Oh my God. Because I absolutely loved my job as an executive assistant. But this felt bigger than me. And I, once I was around other business owners, I was really passionate and impactful, like this online world is like a whole other thing that I'd never experienced before.

And I was like, this is incredible. But I saw a lot of the same patterns that I'd seen in myself and realised that they were too on this trajectory of potential burnout. And what I realised is that they were good at their craft and their genius, but. The thing that was burning out, burning them out, was the fact that they didn't have knowledge of like business fundamentals and how to operate a business.

And I knew with my expertise that that was where I could unlock some freedom for them. And that's where they didn't need to make so many sacrifices to achieve that the goals that they wanted. So that's where my business was kind of born. And I feel passionate about working with business owners to help them achieve their big goals, but do it without scale, without sacrifice.

That, that's kind of my story on what I do and why I do it, in a very, very small snapshot. . Yeah. 

[00:04:26] Jordan: Yeah. I love it. I love it. So we're going to talk about, you know, when you, when we were chatting about what we're gonna dive into, There seem to me to be a theme that relates to burnout, which is like not, feeling like you have to do everything.

Like not making everything about you as the business owner, doing all of the things, or even serving all of the clients or getting your eyes or your hands on every single thing. And I see that all the time. I see it in myself. I see it in my clients. so, so when you, when you look at that, like what, what do you, do you think that's the thing that like typically is causing the burnout?

I mean, you mentioned business fundamentals, but. Is it the, the, the taking ownership of a hundred percent of all the things in the business too? 

[00:05:15] Aimee: Yeah. So I think it's like, gosh, almost like a threefold. I think firstly, I mean I know that I don't know if most of this or audience is female, but I, I typically work with mostly women.

And I think this is a generational thing of we are conditioned to serve and to take care of everybody and people please and wanna do the best for everybody. So, you know, I'm, I'm a mother of two and, you know, run a business and work full time and try and take care of the house and like all of these things.

So I think there's, there's kind of that part of, of wanting to do everything. I think there also is the fact that we are really passionate business owners and we really care deeply about our clients and our business and there's so much passion there for our work that. We feel like we are the only one that could possibly deliver everything in our business because our way is the right way and no one has got our touch or our passion or for what we do.

So we, we want everything to, to go through us. And then I think there's that kind of third aspect of like we say we want this, I dunno, to grow or to scale our business. The reality of that to, to shift from that solo opener into the business is a very different factor. And that is about that relinquishing control.

And so again, we are kind of, we want the support we don't under and, and I think there's a lack of, . I don't know. I don't think I, I think in the online space particularly, there's a lot of, a lot of strategies and a lot of tactics, but there's not enough equipping and empowering people about how to sustain the growth they're telling them to, to create or, that, that aspect from it.

So I think it's kind of threefold really in terms of how that ends up manifesting for business owners. 

[00:07:01] Jordan: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I, can definitely, personally resonate with all of this , and it's, it's stuff I've been thinking about a lot lately too, about this, this distinction between being the business owner, being the ceo, being the talent, being the person who's like doing the client support or whatever.

Mm-hmm. Like there's all these different hats and obviously when you're at a certain level in your business, you have. To wear all of the hats or you have to wear most of the hats, right? yep. But then, I feel like, I feel like there's kind of this misconception out there that like you have to be the CEO and you have to be doing like the CEO task.

And most of my clients don't wanna be a ceo. Like they don't actually wanna do that at all. . 

[00:07:47] Aimee: Yeah. I, it's funny, I was talking about this yesterday on my, on my stories in terms of like, we see the CEO particularly banded around quite a lot and I don't think like when, certainly when I talk to like my ideal clients and stuff, it's not something they like aspire to be.

And I think one, one because there's like a lack of role models for what that looks like. I mean, for me, I take a massive amount of enjoyment of being, of the CEO role and like the leadership role, but I, I think it's because I have worked so closely with CEOs and execs, and so I understand probably on a very deep level like what, what the realities of that is.

And I. I think if you've not been in that environment, like how would you know? I think you perhaps think a CEO is like the typical white guy in the gray suit, middle aged, and it's like, look, like really? Like we are trying to come away from every box that we've ever been stuffed in and creating this amazing business.

And now what we're saying we're, we wanna be that, that type of person. But I do think that there needs to be, I think being a leader of your business is very important. If, if you want to get to a certain level because you know, when you get to, you sit, hit certain income, milestones, fun, your business fundamentally changes.

It does. And if for you to be able to scale, to be able to do those things and in order for you to scale and do those things, there is a shift. There is a shift where you do have to do more of a leadership role, but also obviously you're staying in your zone of genius and you are, you are, you are honing your craft and you're in, you are in more of that so you remove those kind of lower level tasks that you do.

So whilst I know that it's probably not really aspirational and people really struggle to get their heads around this kind of CEO thing, I definitely do think it is, I believe it is a requirement of, To, to step into that leadership to become, to have difficult conversations without attaching your emotion to it.

To be able to remove and lift yourself up and get perspective on things to, to, I really try to empower my clients or equip with them to be more strategic. About how they look at their own business. So whilst I absolutely, of course, value the value, the value a coach to see your blind spots, I want you to be, I want my clients to be able to kind of lead themselves enough to go, Okay, that's why I need to invest where I need to invest because I, I dunno, I'm doing a SWOT analysis.

I can see my gaps. Or they feel confident to put their foot forward first in a market and not feel like they're having to follow the crowd or follow the trend. Like that's the kind of leadership, I mean, in terms of them being innovative, I'm feeling confident enough with how they operate and how their business operates to say, I'm going first and I know that , you know, I don't think we talk about, I just don't think we talk about it.

We hear enough about like what that actually means in terms of leadership. It doesn't have to be. This stuffy CEO role that I think we, we, I dunno, perhaps have perceptions of 

[00:11:12] Jordan: Yeah, and I, I also think there's so many different ways to approach this because I feel like when you think about a ceo, like you need to be able to delegate to a team and like do things like that.

but I don't actually think the business owner needs to. Doing those things. 

[00:11:33] Aimee: You know what, like the CEO's not doing the delegation because it's typically an obm, right? Like the CEOs that I work for had me, I was an executive assistant, so actually they would download their brain to me, or we would have those, those things in place like, you know, board, meetings, management, those, all those touch points.

Is your cascade in that strategy in terms of like quarterly, monthly, whatever to keep that strategy on track? So, yeah. Of the day to day, of course the CEO isn't actually, Delegating, but it's, it's that transition, right? Of like when the, when you are starting to make that shift, yes, you are gonna be learning how to work with an OBM or, or an amazing team like yours, Jordan,

And you have to get used to like that, That is a change in your role. You, you are, you have got a team and whether it that is an executive, a team or, or whether you are like, you know, delegating straight to one team member, it's still, it's still a shift in your role. You're not totally, fundamentally in your, in your zone of genius all the time.

That's a new skill that you will need to develop as you grow your business to make sure that it's profitable when, like, all of those different things. 

[00:12:43] Jordan: Yeah. So, so here's my, this is what I've been trying to like, put my finger on or figure out and explore in the last few weeks. . So like, I actually pulled up this definition and put this on my stories fairly recently about what a CEO actually does, because again, I, I freaking love being a ceo.

Like, that's the space I like to live in. And it sounds like you like that stuff too. Like, man, like just let me think about my org structure and like, do my profit projections and like look at all the like, Yeah. It, I love that stuff. I love building out the team. I love delegating, I love driving the strategy.

I love doing all of that. , but in the online space, and I think this is what's really unique and why it's not talked about, because there is this, this unique nuance when it comes to businesses that are coaching businesses and even even service providers, especially when you get into service providers who are doing things like course creation and like have this education, like arm of their business is that it gets it, it just feels different to me than how a lot of other businesses, especially like brick and mortar or like standard companies or corporations operate.

And it's that the, the, I don't think the owner wants to, or even maybe should be the CEO because, So here's the definition. I'll just read it. CEOs are responsible for managing a company's overall operations. This may include delegating and directing agendas, driving profitability, managing company, organizational structure, strategy, and communicating with the board.

Okay. So my clients and I posted this, I was like, Do you, do you wanna do these things? Like I put this on my story and like 90% of people were like, Hell no, I don't wanna do that. That's not what I wanna do. They wanna be the talent. Right. And so do you think there's, do you think that like our clients are, are like ideal clients, coaches, service providers in this online space?

Do you think they have to be CEOs? I mean long term, like if they're thinking about growing and scaling their business, do they actually have to do this? Or is this something that they bring someone in to do at some point? 

[00:14:52] Aimee: So, I mean, you could say that's a managing director role, right? I dunno if you have them over, you have them in the.

Yeah, 

[00:15:00] Jordan: like a director of operations or 

[00:15:02] Aimee: something like that. Yeah. So they manage the day to day operations and even they would have a CEO underneath them. So, but for, so I, I agree. I think in the online space, I don't think they do have a desire to do all of those things. And that's where we do tend to, to bring in some of those roles, those teams like yourself that kind of manage those, those different things.

I, I have a finance, like CFO for example, and I definitely have those people under me that support. I think there's something that was kind of missing in that description for me, where almost that visionary piece, so the CEO for me is, you know, you have the vision and you are holding the vision and you are ensuring that like everything underneath the infrastructure, like every, every piece that's around that is pulling towards that bigger vision and.

So in my mind, yes, they're the, they're the visionary and they're obviously, they're in the online space, they're, they're doing it, whereas I don't think in corporate they do, like, you know, they're bringing their team on, but they're very much the, yeah, the, the craft, the genius behind it, which there's a whole nother conversation around delivery and stuff that we could get into there.

But Yeah, I think in, I think in the corporate world, they're, they hold the vision or they craft the vision, but the team are kind of doing it. And in the online space they are, they are the vision. and so they, there's a certain responsibility if they want to fulfill that vision to, to lead it.

Yeah. And to, to embody it and, and whatever. But I know what you're saying, like it like actually doing the do. Is that what you mean? Right. Yeah. And which of course I think isn't, and it's, that's the thing, right? So many of, And I think that's why like entrepreneurs are visionaries. Yeah. Like, but most struggle with having that macro view and the micro implementation, which is why you get this.

You know, the, quite a lot of coaches and whatnot are like flailing around cuz they're really great at the visionaries and the ideas and the whatever, but the execution misses and then you can get the people that are really, really great at the detail and the execution and the implementing, like the service providers, et cetera, who might have a vision but they don't know how, like the how or that, that kind of, And you kind of like end up with these two kind of, these two breeds if you're like Yeah, totally.

Like really, really struggling. 

[00:17:39] Jordan: Yeah. I see that a lot because I do work with coaches and I work with service providers and I work with agency owners and so I, I see, I see all the diversity in like skill sets and zone of genius and all of that. And I think you touched on something that I think is. The, the meat of this, which is, you know, you think about a typical company, a corporation or something, and they, they're very like, segmented in, in terms of like roles and responsibilities.

And that's harder to do when you are, especially as you start out as a solo entrepreneur. but in this online space, like, I don't think it's, it's truly possible to effectively show up, especially long term as the talent. The CEO and the visionary, like, that's so many hats to wear and it's, it's, they're all very important hats to wear, you know?

But like, I think it's really hard for one person to effectively do all of those things, which is kind of what we're putting on people in this 

[00:18:45] Aimee: space. I think. I totally agree. And I think, you know, when I was talking about like those pivotal points and the shifts that they have to make, when I was like, Oh, there's a whole nother conversation.

This is the conversation of there comes a time when the business owner has a realization that if they want to scale, that it's not reliant on their energy of showing up. And it doesn't have to be them delivering, because by this point they're gonna be quite established and they will have proof of concept.

And actually it's more about their IP and the impact in, in that respect. And that. That really is about the mindset shift of the business owner and really identifying, okay, what's, what's my new role when I want to scale? Like actually, is it that they're doing keynote speaking or their, this thought leadership in another way?

Like how, how does their impact change? Possibly because they've unpacked their IP into some really shit hot course curriculum or like they've trained support coaches or they've got an expert team that actually implement now and they don't, but they're delivering the top line strategy. Like there's different ways that they have to kind of switch out and realize that it isn't now all about them.

Mm-hmm. and it isn't going all the way through them if, if they have a desire to scale. 

[00:20:12] Jordan: Yeah. And, and I think that's such a personal choice. And we throw around the word scaling, right. And, and I think that, Man, it's so subjective. Like scaling generally, and I think I've talked about this on a recent episode, is like, for me, more impact, more, more income, less time.

Like it, it's, it can be that simple I think, but there's so much subjectivity in how that can look and the actual scale of your scaling, right? Like does that mean you're running a $500,000 business and you're working 10 hours a week? Does that mean you're running a 20 million business and you're working 30 hours a week and you have a team of like 30, I don't know, like it.

[00:20:53] Aimee: But that's the joy there, isn't it? Like Yeah. It's, And there's, and that there isn't one way to scale, And personally for me, that's what I absolutely love about what I do. Yeah. I work with real estate businesses, online service providers, agencies, coaches, and everybody I work with, it's completely tailored in that, Oh, okay, my desire is to work however many days a week because they've got young children.

Or actually, I wanna travel, but my client, my ideal clients are like this, or this works best for us. And it's a whole, whole process. Do we even get to the crooks of like the profit, the passion, the lifestyle, the energy type? Like there's so many, yeah, so many different facets to it, which is what I find so exciting.

Like my zone of genius, like it feels like utter chaos to them. But I have, I'm like an InVision intuitive in my human design. I literally can talk to somebody and I can see it all just like, play out.

and, and that's what's so beautiful. Like, it, it doesn't have to, I think, I think the online space makes you want, they want you to say that it's a certain way and it's nothing else or whatever. And it's like, you know, there's, there's a lot of people going, Oh, well not everybody wants to grow and scale.

[00:22:12] Aimee: Well, no, not everyone does want to grow and scale, but guess what? If you do want to scale, that's what I'm really good at. . Yeah, exactly. So I'm your people and if I'm not your person, then that's okay. . Yeah. because yeah. You know, I always say that success isn't a destination. And it goes back to like my story of like, how can we start to like, joy is my, is my thing.

Like I just want people to enjoy the journey because what we know is if we are that relentless, ambitious person, like you will always have a next thing, always have a next thing. And so we've got to enjoy the journey along the way. And so, you know, finding those, finding that way of scaling or the way that brings joy in the way that you do your product suite and how you interact with your clients and how you create that impact and how you scale, that's, that's great for you.

And just know that that's, and like get laser focused on your own, our own past. Cuz there is no right or wrong way, , there's just easy error ways. Yes, 

[00:23:17] Jordan: yes, yes, yes. I'm all about ease. And, and I always have to give the caveat of like, This shit is still hard. Like this is hard work. Like this isn't gonna be like, Oh, you don't have to do anything.

that's, I think it's 

[00:23:27] Aimee: hard work in, in parameters. That's what I like to say. Like, yeah, if you set those boundaries and those parameters of what you want it to be, I mean, fucking hell, I get to work. I get to work Yeah. Within the parameters that I've set. But when I said that I'm closing my laptop, I'm closing my laptop, or it, it, it, whatever.

It's not, Yeah, it's not, it's not easy else. Everybody would do it, but there are ways to make it easier so that you can have more joy while you are, while you're 

[00:23:58] Jordan: doing it. Right. Yeah. It shouldn't feel like a slog. I, I feel like you know that it shouldn't feel. Hard all the time. And I think my human design piece that you mentioned is your, yours is inner vision.

I think mine's feeling, So I, I, I talk in that language a lot. Is that like, it should feel easy, but you still gotta work hard. you know, . 

[00:24:19] Aimee: Yeah, no, I'm all about like, I love, I really do work with a lot with like, energy and, and flow. Like, cause I love performance and productivity and efficiency and all of that.

So I'm like, if I feel resistance or if you feel like you're pushing water up here, it's a, it's just a sign that it's saying, How can I do this another way? This doesn't work for me. Like, is it my environment? Is it like the actual task that I'm doing at hand? Is this outside my zone of genius? Like, what's going on here?

What can I uncover? And that's, that's the beauty I, and I think as you grow as well, is that you start to look at things that are uncomfortable and you lean in. Like, okay, what is this telling me? Where is you? Earlier on in your business, you're like, Oh fuck, I can't do this. I'm a failing. Whereas now you're like, Give me the pain.

[00:25:08] Jordan: Yeah, exactly. We, we talked all about this on a episode a couple weeks ago about like the breakdown followed by the breakthrough and Jordan, I crave these bad things. I'm like, Yes, something bads happening. That means 

[00:25:22] Aimee: something. Good's coming. . Oh my God. I feel like I, well know, we were just chatting about this before we put record on, but I feel like I'm totally been on that journey recently of like knowing that like the business is going through a level and like I'm even just, I dunno.

You go through these pivotal points where you are reshaping and refining. And I knew, I knew that like this was gonna push up against my edges. So I was like, Okay, I'm gonna go to therapy . But like, literally why? And then I, like last week I was questioning myself, like, why, why did I knowingly go and break myself when I'm going through an up level?

But then you, you know, in those moments you're like, on the other side of this, there is something really powerful. . 

[00:26:05] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, if you lean into it, you can speed that shit up. Like just, just go all in on it. , like, don't resist it cause you're gonna 

[00:26:14] Aimee: get stuck. Oh my God. A hundred percent.

Like business is just such a mirror to all of your shit. And, and this is one of the, it is one of the really key things to scale in. Like, I've been doing some really, really deep work on. You know how I operate in the containers that I've created and it's really interesting. I know we were chatting about like codependency and proximity and Let's talk about it.

Yeah. How you re and like boundaries and cuz you know, like I think when you're in this season of business where you're like, Oh I'm gonna open up Voxer access for 6 66 and you can have 24 hour access or whatever. Or like, I wanna create this space that's like really safe and normalize this growing pains.

Hello Aimee. you know, and I had a very good, great intention for why I wanted to create a space cuz the why behind my business was mental health. And I was sick and tired of people comparing themselves online and thinking that what they were going through was without invalidating their feelings.

Of course, you know, Was something out of the ordinary. But what I know is working with like dozens and dozens of business owners is that they go through the same patterns, the similar times in business. And I kind of wanted to normalize that and go, No, it's okay. And like, how can we lift each other up and whatever.

But then also by creating those like smaller pods that kind of encourage that vulnerability actually, is that, is that helping my clients? Like, is that holding them to a higher standard of themselves to be able to deal with their, like the resilience that you need to, to grow a business? And is that actually expanding them?

Is that, you know, and I was like, oh my god. Like such realizations around how you can create containers and the proximity and that co dependency and then really looking at yourself and going, Okay. Let me look at my own shit in terms of like my own self worth and like all of this stuff. And also as a coach, really creating safe containers, like making sure that you're not like reacting versus responding and like projecting your shit on your clients.

And like all of this, like, I've been going deep on this. and what I've literally switched off some of my most profitable programs and so much because. Just completely changing my business, cuz I think it's so important for me as I scale my business. Okay. Because those containers that I was perhaps creating, that the, the proximity was so close or whatever, that isn't scalable.

And so therefore, I'm not an embodiment of my work. I'm not congruent. Yeah. And so , I've been doing a whole piece on congruency as well. Like, I love it that, that embodiment and it's, that's the real, That's real work. That's real work. Yeah. And it's ego death. Ego death. 

[00:29:18] Jordan: I love it. Our mutual friend, Emma Louise, I was just chatting with her today because I don't know how anyone survives in this space without a one-on-one coach.

I, I. Can't fathom it. Like a one, like either, either it's therapy or it's a one-on-one coach who's helping you get through this, This like emotional mindset Shit, I love groups. I'm a huge fan of groups. I don't think this stuff can be done in groups. I, I, I not at the level that it needs to be done. And it's really interesting.

I was on a call today that was a group call and it, it turned into like this, this more like mindset focused session and like people talking about the stuff that they're struggling with. And I know that that stuff is needed, but for me, that's not actually what I need from a group setting. Like, to me that stuff feels like can be really contagious.

the struggles and like the. It's nowhere near like this victim mentality. It's not that. It's even just talking about the day to day struggles. I think it's contagious to people and I think it's actually harmful in group 

[00:30:35] Aimee: settings. Well, it's like the, Yeah. Cuz I mean there's a lot of that kind of, the absorption or, I don't know, we all have a natural tendency to kind of wanna bond Yeah.

Through these experiences. So then you, you're trying to like, pull out , pull out your own shit of like, Oh yeah. Like that happened to me. Where actually you were, you were over it. You've problem solved, you've moved through it. And now actually like, it's almost like a regression. So it's a, the, a contraction almost.

Whereas we, like, I know that I definitely wanna put myself in spaces where I feel stretched and expansive if I'm in a group container mm-hmm. like obviously I'm here for the, the deeper work. But like, that feels like going, going backwards and like Yeah, you wanna be inspired, you're bonding through trauma and, and shit.

Like it's just, 

[00:31:25] Jordan: Yeah, I think there's a time and a place for that, but it's gotta be limited. Like the, it has to be balanced with, like you said, the expansion and the inspiration and the look what I'm doing and accomplishing. And, and I think those things, those containers I feel like can go south really fast.

And so like for when I, when I bring clients on a, I'm like, Look, we don't do mindset here. Like mindset is super important. You have to have a coach to help you with that stuff. That's not me. Cuz I'm gonna tell you like, you just need to take action on something. Like we just need to decide and do. Like, I'm not qualified to do anything 

[00:31:57] Aimee: else.

Do you know? And I think that's so important because I do think that there are, You know, when people, I mean the most obvious, obvious way of scaling and the, the most common is like, Oh, I've, I've figured out my one to one and now I'm gonna do a one to many. And it's not about just slinging up your framework into a course curriculum.

It is ab absolutely having intentionality about so many different elements within that group container that not only facilitates the best possible client transformation, but maintains the energy and the momentum and creates a safe container. It says what it is and what it isn't, and how do we communicate?

How do we. ask for support. Like there's so many different elements in there that you have to think about to make that scalable so it doesn't sacrifice your client results and obviously your own results and, Brand reputation. Yeah. to make sure that they are really safe and powerful containers.

And that's, you know, a reason that my, I mean, I closed my recent program. It was an incredible container. Like we had women that res resigned over and over and they got incredible results. However, when I looked at it through a lens of, you know, holding myself to that high standard in the business that I wanna create and being scalable, is this doing the right thing?

And I was like, I could tweak it while they were in there, but that. Feel like it was even gonna scratch the surface and doing it justice. And I needed to step away and create space Yes. At the detriment of my bottom line. but I feel that that, like integrity is such a big thing for me as well. Like I, like I say, I wanna be a congruent and it was like, no, I need to take space and do the deep work on this to make it the program that I really want it to be.

And I think. In, We don't, there's just this whole thing around instant gratification, quite a lot of the online space, and it's like if we delay or like there's power in the pauses or pulling back to spring forward, however you wanna put it, there's so much power in that. and, and taking that time to, to really reflect on all of these things.

Before, before, like, cause when you're scaling, you're putting so much structure and systems behind it. Like if you've got a really powerful industry leading signature program that you wholly believe in and you've done that work, God, like, that's incredible because you can start to automate your systems around that, your sales, your marketing, and you really can have that running on autopilot for the most part before you do those elements that you deliver.

But you are not gonna, you are never gonna put those investments behind it if you haven't done that work. So, I properly went on the tangent 

[00:34:51] Jordan: then . No, that was great. I wanna actually, if you're okay with it, dive into this, this recent change that you've made and hear more about the specifics of like, why, 

[00:35:03] Aimee: why, Gosh, do you know?

It's really how it's, it's interesting cuz I am for the most part quite transparent with my audience. Like I've built up a really engaged community and they're like so on the journey with me and it's amazing. And so much so they're like, you know, I'm like, oh my God, like something's changing, da da da. I just had a real deep knowing that like, things don't feel quite right and I think saying that I resented my clients is, is too strong.

Like, I, I loved them, you know, I, I really enjoyed working with them. But there was, I dunno, there was something in me where I felt called that I could, work with my clients on a much deeper level and to work on or work with business owners that had more properly operational complexities. Like I do that more in my consulting and private mentoring, but from a group perspective, it wasn't quite there.

so yeah, it was more a mix of like, and knowing am I reaching my full potential within the containers that I'm at and like, is that fulfillment really there? and you know, I did really enjoy the work with my clients, so if any of my ex clients are listening, please know that I didn't resent you. I absolutely adored working with you until the last per I was totally committed and in there with it.

[00:36:28] Aimee: But, yeah, sometimes you just have to shift and, yeah, I, I. I called it the becoming because it, it feels like there was a becoming of me. And then it almost translated into like, that was totally what it felt like, what it was about. And that I felt like I was, I had to put my foot forward first and be the leader, as I say, and start talking about things around scaling that probably hadn't been said before in terms of the deeper work that you need to do and the more intentionality, like that's, that's not seen so much.

And I knew that I had to hold myself to a high standard before I can start to put it in my programs and which is why I had to take the space. So it's not a short answer and it's very hard to articulate, but it's just like a knowing, and a, and knowing that I had more potential and I knew that that would, in turn, Expand those in my world and it totally has like , some of my clients were like, I was actually really angry with you when you said you were gonna close the program because I wanted to stay in it.

And, but then I reframed it and I could see actually how you decided to close and like cut off so many, like I closed my cowork in and like another membership and like so many things and they were like, that felt so powerful for me to see you make those decisions. Mm, mm-hmm . And actually obviously I totally believe in equipping my clients with the tools that they need there.

They can lead themselves to some extent and they're like, This now feels like it was my time. So me just even making that decision, the ripple effect of that for people in my world actually was like, that felt to me like God, like even that was just. leadership and mm-hmm. , how that reflected positively on the people.

And I'm like, Wow. And I've not even started yet. , I've not even started yet. But, so yeah. And knowing, just trying to fulfill my potential and I'm always focusing on joy. Where am I finding my joy? and just exploring this kind of new, it's just a new iteration of, of my business, a new becoming of me, and a new becoming of my business.

And I felt like that was, what my audience needed to hear as well in terms of them becoming, Because I feel like they limit their dreams so much because of the complexities of what that might mean. Or I've gotta be responsible for this, or I need to put the system in here and they limit themselves, or they're inner critical limits them or whatever.

It's they, they're ham in their dreams and I want them to expand and go, Yeah, I can do it too. I can make brave, bold decisions and become whatever I want to be. Yeah. Cause I dunno about you, but like, when I first started my business, there was an initial leap of, oh shit, like this is really scary. Like, what are my, like people from my work gonna say or like, whatever.

And then that becomes kind of the norm, right? And then everyone in your audience or your community like know you for talking about this and you show up like that and dah, dah, dah, and you become this. So to make that shift again, you've then got, it's almost like, Oh my God, I've gotta. I've gotta break out the box again because I don't wanna talk about that thing anymore.

Yeah. Because I've grown so much, I do so much work on myself and learning and whatever, and I wanna talk about why I don't wanna talk about X anymore. and then, so that becomes a whole, a whole thing. So yeah, that was a not easily articulated answer, but, And knowing, 

[00:40:09] Jordan: Yeah, I'd love to know how it actually is looking like the actual, I love the why.

And now what is this process actually looking like for you? Is it you pulling back and. Taking the time and space and then you're gonna craft a new offer. Offer. Do you have a new offer already? Is it like, what are the, the tangible things that are happening? 

[00:40:32] Aimee: Okay. What I, I like getting into this stuff. So, so first of all, I decided with, and, and I say this to my clients and what is can be quite challenging for people is to create the space.

We quite often, this is what hampers most people when they wanna grow and scale, like they've got the knowing, but they're either capped on clients or they're so in the weeds of their business that their mental bandwidth doesn't allow them now to innovate or to get stuck into that vision work. So I knew that I had to create space for myself to think.

So I like community has always been one of my big values. And I'd created, I'd got like free cowork in on a Monday and I'd recently just, I think, I think like just a month before I'd started, like. , membership that was all around, executing. And so understanding about how you work and your energy and productivity and all of that type of stuff.

and also I got my growth circle. So that was a, like a group mastermind. I'd probably, I think I got about 10, 10, 12 women in there at that time. I got my podcast on and whatever. I closed all of them, , Whoa, all of them. So co-working and my action co went straight away. My podcast, I put on pauses because I just didn't feel like I could, I, I always say about like, when you are sharing with your audience, I think it's really important to, to share these things, but sometimes.

[00:42:07] Aimee: Important to share from the scar rather than from the wound. And whilst it didn't feel like I was, you know, like hurting or anything. But I didn't have the, I, you know, even like, we just, just having that conversation then it was, it wasn't really succinct. 

[00:42:24] Jordan: don't have the context yet. You don't have the Yeah, you can't explain it cuz you're in it.

[00:42:29] Aimee: Yeah. And but then the thing is, if when everybody's got like an opinion or they're like, they wanna know and they want the clarity of, cuz they wanna come along in a journey, which is amazing. But I c i, I couldn't have any outside, like we know how noisy the online space is. I had to limit consumption. So I was very, very limited.

Like, I wasn't listening to podcasts myself. I wasn't reading books. I wasn't going online. I had to really go inward and find out like what was, what was going on? Like what, what do I really, really want? so the growth circle literally just phased out last week. That was the last week? Last week. And it was, it was quite emotional cuz it was, you know, it's been running for, gosh, nearly 18 months, two years.

and I've got all of this fricking space, which let me tell you, as an overachiever, that can throw up fears Too. Uncomfortable . Yeah. Yeah. so yeah, it's, I've just been working on, doing that deeper work that I said. So I've been, I've. Been doing some, learning more around, seeing my shadows and like how that plays out in boundaries.

[00:43:34] Aimee: Proximity, codependency, responding verse and reacting boundaries. Just deeper, deeper, deeper stuff about how I can be, and anchor coach and create safe containers. I've worked through all of that stuff in terms of like my own, my own gaps or where I know that I can improve. I've took that to therapy.

so I, I started my therapy and, and stuff again, like last couple of weeks, which is, well, about three weeks ago, something like that. then I have been working with a coach, like I had two VIP days, so. I think this is always important to share as well. Like strategy is my thing. Working out product suite, like all of that is my thing.

[00:44:12] Aimee: I fricking love it, but when you're in the jar it's really hard to see the label and it's really good to get that outside perspective. So I invested in a coach and we had two really deep dive VIP days cuz I kind of got it there, but needed to shape and I also needed to somebody to go, You need to raise your prices.

Or like, what? Yeah, you are, you are reverting back to that old bullshit that you were, you were, you've just got rid of, or whatever it was. Yep. So, there is a, an incredible group program that I want to create. As I say, like I wanna go really, really deep on that in terms of what that looks like before I put the infrastructure behind it.

So that'll be in 2023. but for now, I have just switched up my one-to-one offerings and just got really, really, really clear on who they are and at what level of business and what they're really experiencing. Like really, really, really fucking specific on who they are and why they're buying into certain things, and how I can best support them in those containers.

And interestingly, we've got a one month and a three month and a six month. So the six months typically is somebody that comes to me from that messy middle stage. And I was like, completely wants to rebirth and go, cuz normally they have all the bits. And that's that thing I really love about like fricking chaos.

And I'm like, Yes, , let me in there, get some clarity and then like put it all back together. I always say like, I'm like the Mario Mary condo of business. Like I take it all out, find the joy, and then put it all back together. And I'm like, ha. Now they like get fricking excited about their business again. and then the three months is, kind of for the business owner, that's like six multi, six figure, where they're like, I'm really clear on like where I am, but I'm not sure how I'm gonna make this scalable.

and so we kind of work on like, is it refining their product suite and the scalability of that, or I work with their team or whatever it is. or like growing agency what, whatever that kind of is. And it's normally, it's, it's a tighter container because they don't need as much kind of accountability and stuff like that.

[00:46:16] Aimee: And it's very like, this is the thing, go and do the thing kind of, situation. And then the one month is normally where I've got a very specific problem and I just need to, I overcome that and that feels really, really good, to kind of give me some time. I did have an intensive as well, which I've ditched as well.

that's, that's just gone, That was a half day intensive. And I, I do have the IP days, which I've continued so. so yeah, we're just on the one-to-one train at the moment. but events are a big thing for me. We're relaunching the podcast, in the, in the next month, and I've got a very, very, very exciting project in the mix for the end of next year, which is event based, which I'm like, Absolutely buzz about

[00:46:59] Aimee: Yeah. but yeah, all, all, you know, working towards that big vision now, supporting people to scale without sacrifice ultimately. Yeah. And it feels very, very exciting. So yeah, creating space, doing the work, doing the inner work, continuing with that, leaning into and embodying my own work is that, like, that's a real big thing for me.

Like, where am I showing off on social media saying that's, that's so important. You need to do it. Like, am I, am I doing that? Like, just sense checking all of that stuff, which I'm pleased to report how I mostly am . Um,yeah, like congruency, like doing, doing the work and, yeah, it feels, feels really good.

[00:47:41] Jordan: Well, you bring up something that I think is unbelievably important, and we've talked about the importance of having like, someone who can help you with like the mindset, the emotional, like the, all of that stuff. But I, and I have someone for that, but I also find, even though I love the business strategy, I have a really hard time doing it for myself in a vacuum.

Like I can, and I do, but I can do it so much more easily if I'm supported by the right person to like help me do it more quickly. Because yeah, you come to me and like one of my clients, you, you want me to help you plan your launch for November. Okay, cool. Boom, boom, boom, let's talk about it. And I've been sitting looking at a Google doc for my November launch for like weeks.

And every time I go to work on it, I'm like, I can't, I don't 

[00:48:30] Aimee: know. We should co-work Jordan . 

[00:48:34] Jordan: And so this is the thing that you have to be aware of though, and, and it's constantly evolving and actually just started working with a new mentor and consultant because I was like, Oh. I know exactly what I need.

I need someone who's like five to 10 steps ahead of me who has done the exact thing that I'm wanting to do. Yeah. And I mean, this is gonna be a game changer. I know it's gonna be a game changer, but like, you have to be that. That's where I think the stillness and the pause and stuff like that really comes in handy.

or not even as handy. It's critical because I didn't even realize that that's what I was looking for until this last month when my team slash I put a pause on bringing on any more clients. They were like, We have a somewhat maybe different issue than some people in this space in that we, our problem is never sales.

[00:49:29] Jordan: Our problem is never getting new clients. Our problem is building the infrastructure as quick as we need to, to onboard the clients who wanna work with us. And so almost a hundred percent of my time is spent on like back. Org structure, hiring, like the bigger picture stuff, which I love. but we had to, we had to have like this forced pause of you're not allowed to bring on any new clients this month.

But I think that's 

[00:49:57] Aimee: so important. Like I think there's this perception that growth or scaling is just this constant upward trajectory and it can't always be like, there has to be moments where you take stock, you do analysis, you feel, you feel into like what is happening right now or, you know, Yeah. Just, just taking stock and having those moments be before you kind of go again.

Mm-hmm. , because that helps it, it's like risk assessment, right? I know that's really boring term, but, you mitigating the risk future proofing your business and that will, that will, you know, really support you to. Create the impact that you want and protect your brand. And like so many things, like there is so much power in the pools.

and, and taking that space and also so much power in hiring people that do the same thing as you do. I always say I want an Aimee . I wish I could have an Aimee, I wish I could have a Aimee and my wife . She, you, 

[00:51:02] Jordan: you need, you need yourself, but you also need so many other complimentary people. And I think that's been the really, the really fun thing about growing our team.

So fast is seeing where all of these people like perfectly slot in. Yeah. And it's like, Oh man, their brain works totally different than mine. Yeah. Or like, Oh man, that's exactly what I would've thought or said. And they just did it and I didn't have to think about it. And, I don't know. I love that stuff.

That's, that's the fun stuff 

[00:51:27] Aimee: for me for sure. But you need that time as well to that time, enables you to see those gaps and helps you make the right investments instead of making investments in things that are done from a place of scarcity or fear or like, Oh, I should, or whatever. I think you get to a certain level in business where you can just cut the noise on of that shit because you understand your business so much and you're like, Mm.

That's just the thing, like I've totally known there is sometimes like I, you know, like the v i p day person, for example, I just knew exactly what I needed. I'd never even spoken to her before my friend recommended her, went to profile, just read a few, like, yeah, okay. Right. I'm in. Yeah.

That's just, we don't need the nurture of this stage, just like, mm-hmm. That's, that's the problem. Here's the fix. Okay, now let's 

[00:52:20] Jordan: move . That's exactly how it was for me with this new gal that I hired, because I, I literally had like this, Instant moment of like, Oh, I need a, I need someone to mentor me on these exact things.

And I had it in my mind of like, Oh, they would be perfect if they understood what it's like to run an agency, but they also understand this other like, passive side of things and they also blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I asked three or four people and within 30 seconds, two of them sent me the same name and I was like, Whoa.

Crazy. And now we're working together. I mean, it was, it was within less than a week, and it was like, boom, we're 

[00:52:58] Aimee: done. We're signing. It's amazing there. Like, I, I think that is one of the most amazing things about like being an online business owner is like, Yeah. And it's so weirdly inst , but everybody, everybody knows.

I mean, it could go work against you, right? If as well. if you, if you are not, if you're not delivering. But yeah, just the recommendations and like people passing names and I think it's just, I love that. 

[00:53:24] Jordan: Yeah, I think it's a really beautiful space to be in. There's some things I don't like about it, but for the most part I think it's really fun and very collaborative and very supportive.

Like across, at least in the circles that I run in. Okay. I agree. 

[00:53:39] Aimee: I love it. I think it's good. I've had a couple of bad experiences, but I just, Oh, there's always gonna be shut that shit down, down and I just stay, I just stay in my lane. Exactly. Keep my blinkers 

[00:53:49] Jordan: on. I had someone totally plagiarize all of my stuff about a month ago, so that was cool.

Like, there's obviously bad stuff that's gonna happen, you know, But for the most part it's good. Especially again, like I am like so not woo woo, so I don't even know like the words to use for things sometimes, but I take very seriously that concept of like, you are the average of the five people that you spend the most time with, or whatever it is.

And it's why I so love. All of my clients because they expand me. Like they, like they're, many of my clients make more money than me, right? Like, I have a baby business, so like , you know, I'm just at the beginning of this thing. And, I think that's why like those group environments, if you're in group environments, are so important to be expansive and to be inspirational.

And once they're not like done, 

[00:54:41] Aimee: because Yeah. Yeah. They get to show you what's possible. I mean, yeah, my first investment, I know we're totally going off track, but my first investment, like I was working my full-time job, I didn't have a client and I invested in like this high 

level mastermind that was something like, I think it was like 15 k and.

Everyone was like having 10 K days. I didn't even know what lead magnet was. . And I flew to LA and I went to this Hollywood mansion, like with all these coaches and I was just completely like, holy shit imposter syndrome. But actually it showed me what's possible and I was like, Yes, there, let's go . And you know, same six months later was in my business full time.

So. Yep. 

[00:55:29] Jordan: That's so cool. It, it really is. It's, it's amazing the having that like energy and those examples and models I think are absolutely critical. and you kind of have to keep looking for them. And so I think that's interesting with your whole thing about shutting down your program, that it sounds like that may be part of it is because people can get complacent in those containers.

Yeah. And then they kind of just, Don't do anything or don't, And I'm not saying that that is was the case, but I think that that can be fairly common, for people to, Yeah, they 

[00:56:00] Aimee: can lose the energy. You can lose the energy of it. Like we all know what it feels like make it's scary, afaf investments and the energy of coming together and kind of, you have that initial burst and, you know, it is, I think it's challenging as a business owner to run those containers and see how you can keep the energy, going.

Yeah. And it's, it is more challenging as you, you grow as well to find those containers. Yes. To put yourself in. Yes. To infiltrate, infiltrate, to infiltrate those circles. Yeah. Because, you know, how do you create ? How do you create, those relationships with people that are more expansive when they're not on their social media anymore, cuz their team run it or they've avoided got their light set, or like you have to pay to be in it?

[00:56:50] Jordan: Well, pretty much I think that, so like for me, I'm, I'm going from a mastermind into one on one. kind of for that reason is because I think we all, we go through these different seasons and like when I joined the mastermind that I'm in right now, that's getting ready to wrap, I was so freaking uncomfortable.

I was like, I am so outta place here. This is way too much money for me to be spending. Like I am the smallest fish in this, in this group. Like, I don't, like what the hell have I done? 

[00:57:19] Aimee: Yeah. But that's just that what we were talking about where I, You gotta have lean in, You gotta have, 

[00:57:23] Jordan: like, my business is not even, not even comparable to what it was when I started that.

I mean like when I joined that group originally I had like just had my first 10 K month. Okay, well we do 45 to 50 K months consistently every month. Like what? That's not even, And that's within less than a year. Like that's an unfathomable change. Incredible. I feel like, you know what I mean? So like you have to be, you ha I I think what happens is that people just get comfy in the space that they're in.

Yeah. And they don't keep looking for the, Oh god, this is uncomfortable moments, you know, and spaces to be in. And they, but they are hard to find. 

[00:58:03] Aimee: They are really hard to find. Yeah. Someone hits up with some high level masterminds. Yeah. 

[00:58:09] Jordan: We wanna make our own . 

[00:58:10] Aimee: Yeah. Well, coming next year, . 

[00:58:15] Jordan: I love it. Okay.

What else do you think we need to talk about? What's on your mind? 

[00:58:19] Aimee: Oh my goodness. Maybe team. 

[00:58:22] Jordan: Team. Mm-hmm. Love talking team. 

[00:58:27] Aimee: How many team members have you got now? 

[00:58:30] Jordan: We have, I think we've got 20, maybe a little bit more. That's insane. Yeah, I think we have six or seven employees right now. the rest are contractors. We'll probably have over 10, I would say by the end of the year.

Employees, no one's full time. So like that sounds fancier than it is, but everyone on our team is part-time or contractor, but that will change next 

[00:58:52] Aimee: year. I think it is interesting to talk about hiring cuz I think, you know, there's a lot of people that have big desires for big incomes, but steer away from investing in team.

They always want the team at the lower cost or they fear like managing, like managing a team is something I hear like, Oh, I can't manage a team and actually. I think when you get the preparation right and the systems right, and we are treating them like humans and all of that type of thing, like we do the groundwork for hiring, then actually there isn't that much managing to do at all.

And if we really look at the benefits of how your business can expand and the ROI on that, it's, it can be really incredible. And it just makes me question like, do you really want it? Do you really want it? Do you really want the bigger business? Cause there has to be some support. Like, I, I totally get like systemizing first.

but there has to be, I 

[00:59:54] Jordan: think it could go either way. I, I mean, I, I think it's great when people come to us and they already have systems that almost never happens that almost never freaking happens, right? Oh yeah. and yes, so there's, there's lots of ways to scale, but I, I don't. I don't think it's actually possible to do it without a team.

And, and, and I think that is what's really cool about what we, what we do. Like, not to like make this about what we do and sell our services, but, but that's okay. I'm joking, but while we're talking about it, No, I think that's really common for people not to wanna manage a team because it is, it's a distinct skill set from the other things.

And if we go back to what we were talking about at the beginning around like, you know, you have to, if you're wearing your CEO hat and you're wearing your visionary hat and you're wearing your talent hat, like someone's gotta give, like, and if you have zero desire to manage a team, like. What we do. Like I manage a team because that's the shit that I like to do.

And we have people on our team who do that, you know? And, I think there's options for people. Is is all I'm saying? 

[01:00:56] Aimee: Yeah. It would just changes, doesn't it, I suppose like in terms of the amount of revenue that they're bringing into the business. So somebody I imagine may need to hire and not be at the level that they can hire you for your team, for example.

So they, they need to hone the skills. There will be that direct link to their team member, before then, so that they get that time back and then they can grow again. And then they're bringing in enough revenue to go, Hey, we're gonna get Jordan in . Yeah. And the team, right? 

[01:01:28] Jordan: Yeah. And I don't think you can avoid managing people.

Totally. Like, I, I don't think that's actually possible. Like even if you work, like let's say you come to us, you're a solo entrepreneur and you're like at this perfect sweet spot on revenue that you're like, Yeah, totally, I can make this work. Maybe it's a stretch, maybe it's not, but. Say we're your only team.

That's really freaking rare. That's really freaking rare. Like the people who work with us typically have a VA or they've got an ops person. Maybe they've got an obm, maybe they've got a business partner, maybe they've got a whatever. But it's, it, it's, it's not gonna be possible to completely avoid the relationships and leadership piece.

That's that. Going to be essential for scaling like that you can't avoid. Right. So maybe it doesn't mean that you're managing in house an entire team of people, but you're still gonna have to like do some stuff in that like arena, 

[01:02:22] Aimee: right? Yeah. There's a responsibility that you've got in order for them to be able to fulfill their role.

Right. But I just, Yeah, I think that's like when we were talking about that leadership piece earlier, it's that's, that's the thing for me of like that shift, that the change that's like. Okay, I need to embrace this stuff. Like, how can I learn more about it, listen to the podcast, maybe create an SOP here and there or, or whatever to prepare myself and go, it's coming.

Like this is just part of growing and scaling a business Is that, Yeah, I need to embrace and, and step into kind of growing a team because you can grow your business to a certain extent in terms of, you know, you could, you could grow to seven figures, but you would probably not be alive . It would be all going through you and it would be very, very challenging.

And it's, you know, taking that load off and getting some team on board is. And you just feel supported. It's just nice to have someone on the journey with you as well. I think 

[01:03:26] Jordan: having a team just in and of itself is expansive. I mean, once you start to bring on and like have the energy of all those people around you who are like doing different things or have different expertise, like I think that's actually been one of the things that has propelled us forward so quickly is because of the energy of the sheer amount of people who are working behind the scenes.

And then you get, you have this excitement to be like, Oh, let's go find more clients because like, look at all these cool things we can do, you know? Yeah. it's a totally different energy than, than like being burn out and being like, Oh shit, I need somebody to help me because I'm trying to do it all.

And I'm like, drowning over 

[01:04:00] Aimee: here. Yeah. No, I agree. I totally, I love it. And it is that thing of embracing that other people do things and they can do it better than. . 

[01:04:09] Jordan: Mm-hmm. , which is hard for, for some personality types me to accept . 

[01:04:18] Aimee: Well, listen, that was one of the biggest challenges when I first started my business.

Like I know, like I can see that like, Oh, well this is how you're gonna grow your business and there's a new higher hair and da da. Like, yeah, great. Like I can tell my clients there, when you've got your own emotions involved and your own conditioning and beliefs and traits and whatever in the mix, it's so much more challenging.

Like I am not afraid to say that I have been a bit of a nightmare, like earlier on in my business where I'm like not delegating enough or like saying that's not, like, I definitely didn't say like, that's not good enough, but really starting to pick holes or like trying to edit everything or like being a total perfectionist, because it was very hard as somebody who's.

Can implement behind the scenes. I can do the tech, I can write the emails, I can do all of that. It's very much in my zone of excellence. Having been an executive assistant to keep myself in my zone of genius has been very challenging because yeah, I can do it. I'm very, very capable. Yes, very capable.

[01:05:27] Jordan: This has of those roles, this one of my biggest struggles, and it, it was compounded by the fact that like, I'm like that naturally and I'm an agram one. So I think there's a right way to do everything. And I was doing the implementation for our clients at the beginning. So the standard was me because I was doing it, right?

Yeah. And so I wasn't just doing it for myself, I was doing it for all of our clients. So then there was a very distinct growth period where it was like, Okay, I know I can't do it anymore, but I'm still triple checking everything. And this isn't efficient and this isn't gonna scale. And this feels shitty for the people who are getting the feedback every day about do it like this, do it like this, do it like it.

It was 

[01:06:07] Aimee: yourself. You see yourself. Yeah. You see yourself like, and you're like, I am the bottleneck. I'm everything. I didn't like, I totally know this stuff. Like why am I doing this? It's, and it's, it is, it's really challenging. The trust let go of the control. Like I, Yeah. It's, it's really, really hard to kind of break those, break those patterns for the greater good of the 

[01:06:31] Jordan: business.

Well, and there, and I think, so speaking of the leadership and like the relationship based stuff, it, it doesn't just show up with team. And I think leadership shows up a lot too with just how you're interacting with your clients. And I had a chat in our, one of our mastermind calls yesterday with my clients about, holding clients to their contract.

And I think this is so interesting because this feels like a sticking point, like, With every, every client, like there's always some type of interaction of like, okay, but what if somebody like asks to get out of their contract early? And like that is a difficult conversation. That is like an opportunity for you to step up and like serve in a leadership role.

Like those types of opportunities are always presenting themselves too, even if you don't have a team. Mm-hmm. And they're extremely uncomfortable moments, I think. 

[01:07:28] Aimee: Yeah. See, I, I really thrive on. , I really thrive on those types of things. You know, like the problem solves and the communication and like the difficult conversation of, and, but I find that is a lot of the conversations, this is the exactly the type of stuff that I'm like, no one's talking about this stuff and I wanna talk about it more.

Yeah. Because having the difficult conversation, the scope creep, the wanting to get out of the, the contract, all of these types of things, and being able to communicate effectively and hold your, your uphold your boundaries, uphold your contract. But there's a level of discernment as well in terms of like what is the, what is the situation in terms of course, because there's so many nuances to.

You know who that client is and like why, why they're asking or, or whatever it is. Why 

[01:08:17] Jordan: always say and what your contract even says, I mean, there's like all kinds of things to go into it. Yeah. 

[01:08:23] Aimee: But it's like, what is the point of even bothering to send a contract if, and a lot of the time it's so funny, so many people don't even know what's in their real contract to even uphold it.

Yeah. Like, have you read it? Do you know, So like, do hours roll over, like how much Fox are act like what, what are the parameters? Because ultimately, and this is the thing, like I'm being going deeper on in terms of like boundaries and, and stuff like that. It's like I'm making sure that everything that I'm setting is my new standard is.

Put in my contracts as well and communicated effectively. Cuz it's one thing to put things in a contract that, you know, somebody probably isn't gonna read. And I know it's not fully our responsibility to, to kind of drive this home, but it absolutely helps things further down the line in that creating that really comprehensive onboarding, to address some of the most common themes that you perhaps have seen as difficulties or challenges with previous clients.

and doing that in a really more expansive way instead of a. Like, like you are a child or like kind of way like this is how we, this is how we operate in this container. And people really love to be told, people really love to know how they can show up and that allows them to be safe and full them full self in that container because they know the edges, they know the parameters in which they can be.

[01:09:53] Aimee: Instead of like, Oh, tiptoe in like, Oh shit, I foxer, I don't know. Like, are they on light? Da da da. Like, Oh my God, I've just sent a podcast. Or like, they're apologizing and they're not, I don't feel like they show up in that whole self. . so long tangent again there, but , I, I'm, I'm over. I love this stuff in terms of like communication and, and things like that.

So I always say I'm like absolute pro at delivering a shit sandwich, in terms of an email, because I can, I can dress it up, but still be very, very assertive in terms of yeah. what I need to say, but still maintain the relationship hopefully, and my brand . 

[01:10:31] Jordan: Yeah. Well, and I mean, I think, I think that sometimes we make, we make these difficult conversations mean more than they really mean, like, like a being assertive air quotes.

I, I, I mean, I don't even think it needs to be put that way for some of these conversations. It's like you're just communicating to them it's facts. The exact, it's the data information that they should know. Like this is just, we're just telling them this is what the contract says. It's not being mean.

There's zero emotion involved. Like of course, like you said, there's nuance. And if that's the great thing about having a good contract is that you can be more flexible. You can make exceptions to it because you get to decide. But if your contract's not good, that's, that's not something you can, you can't make them, you know, you can't enforce something if it's not in your contract.

So you want it to be the other way around. Mm-hmm. . But I think sometimes, and again this, I think this comes back to, you know, this space that is, at least with my clients, they're all women, right? And so there's, there's some, an extra layer of like kindness and caring and taking on. Other people's responsibilities when you don't need to.

[01:11:47] Aimee: I see that all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Seeing it is, I always say like the, one of the things I always say, like, what are the facts? Okay, so this is the situation, this is the contract, duh, dah, duh, duh, duh. That's the facts. There doesn't have to be any emotion in it. And that's, again, leadership of being able to create that separation between you, yourself, and your business.

You are not, you are on your business. and if it, things like that are triggering. That ones for therapy. . Mm-hmm. . 

[01:12:19] Jordan: Mm-hmm. . It is, yeah. Because in business that the decision is the obvious, in my opinion, decision and what I would tell my client, what I did tell my client this week. Oh, we're, we're gonna hold them to the contract.

They signed a contract. And I love that you brought up congruence, because I feel very strongly about this as well. And it was great to be able to say to my client, Okay, well what did the contract say? The contract says 30 day notice. Did they give you 30 day notice? No. Well then they owe you this next bill because that's, they're in a contract.

And 30 days notice is not unreasonable when you're in a month to month contract. So we're gonna hold them to the contract and then for me to be able to come back and say, I'm in a situation right now where I would like to get out of a contract, but you know what? I signed that contract and I am going to stick with my commitment.

Even though as much as I would like to get out of it, I'm not even gonna ask because I know the contract that I signed and I would not feel, I wouldn't feel an integrity asking someone to do something for me that I wouldn't necessarily do for one of my clients. 

[01:13:21] Aimee: Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's. And it's interesting you say that, and I know that you are, you are not you, You mentioned that you're not like woo woo or anything, but I, I, I'm a real believer in that kind of, that how you show up and you embody is, is the same in terms of like what, what you attract.

Like if you are, I don't know, saying, Oh, I wanna work with someone, and then like you're ghosting them and like you're not showing up for, for that or like a hell you're in or whatever. I totally feel like you will attract the same types of clients that are messing you around. And like, when you're getting pissed with that, you can't get pissed with that if you are acting the same way.

Yep. And we have to, we have to be congruent. 

[01:14:03] Jordan: Yeah, totally. This is like the, the basic thing that you see on, in, I feel like I see this on Instagram all the time. I don't know. but like if you, if you're not willing to spend that amount of money on a coach, why would someone pay you that? You know, like it's, it's, it's a really basic principle and I think it's a little overused, but the sentiment is there, right?

Like I, I invest heavily in team, I invest heavily in coaches, I invest heavily in support, and those are the types of people that I attract. And as I continue to invest more and up level my business, I attract people who are at higher levels in their business. And that's just, it's just kind of a natural thing that flows.

[01:14:42] Aimee: It's great. Yeah. I love it. . Totally agree. Totally 

[01:14:45] Jordan: agree. okay. Anything else? Our podcasts are always one long tangent, so this is like pretty common , but I think it was fantastic. Yeah. Is there anything else you think that's such a great chat. Does anyone need to know something like really specific or just on your mind?

[01:15:02] Aimee: Not that I can think of. but I'm coming to the end of my energy. Yeah. . Mm-hmm. . 

[01:15:07] Jordan: It's late for you. Yeah. 

[01:15:10] Aimee: Yeah. It was such a great chat though. 

[01:15:12] Jordan: It was. Okay, well we will have your information in the show notes so people can connect with you. This was fantastic. This dives into all the fun stuff that I like to talk about all the time.

So this was great. This was super fun for me. It was fun. but yeah, it was great to have you on. 

[01:15:27] Aimee: It was great. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.