For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit: https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode14
Tune in as we discuss how you can build and scale your business while also cultivating community. We dive into stakeholder engagement, failing fast and letting go, building a team and understanding your values, and the messiness of actually running a business.
My guest is Pia Beck, the creator of Curate Well Co., a consulting, configuration, and community platform that helps brands change narratives and redefine norms in industries that are desperately calling for something different. After a career in People Operations in the tech and startup worlds, where she crafted departments from the ground up, doubled national teams, and spun up infrastructures to hit goals faster and fuller, Pia started Curate Well Co. She combined the tools she cultivated to scale teams, concepts she learned from top tech talent, and her natural inclination to consider every detail, care deeply, and shift culture — to build the Full Stack approach Curate Well Co. is known for and apply it to leaders like you who want to build a brand and business bigger than you.
Topics discussed:
Links/Resources Mentioned:
Connect with Jordan Schanda King:
Connect with this weeks guest Pia Beck:
Love what you heard. Reviews really help us out! As a thank you, you can get my 90-Day Planning Formula ($97 Value) by submitting a screenshot of your 5-star review at easyscaling.com/podcastreview
For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode visit: https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode14
Tune in as we discuss how you can build and scale your business while also cultivating community. We dive into stakeholder engagement, failing fast and letting go, building a team and understanding your values, and the messiness of actually running a business.
My guest is Pia Beck, the creator of Curate Well Co., a consulting, configuration, and community platform that helps brands change narratives and redefine norms in industries that are desperately calling for something different. After a career in People Operations in the tech and startup worlds, where she crafted departments from the ground up, doubled national teams, and spun up infrastructures to hit goals faster and fuller, Pia started Curate Well Co. She combined the tools she cultivated to scale teams, concepts she learned from top tech talent, and her natural inclination to consider every detail, care deeply, and shift culture — to build the Full Stack approach Curate Well Co. is known for and apply it to leaders like you who want to build a brand and business bigger than you.
Topics discussed:
Links/Resources Mentioned:
Connect with Jordan Schanda King:
Connect with this weeks guest Pia Beck:
Love what you heard. Reviews really help us out! As a thank you, you can get my 90-Day Planning Formula ($97 Value) by submitting a screenshot of your 5-star review at easyscaling.com/podcastreview
Ep#14 - How to build a community-focused business with Pia Beck
[00:00:00] Jordan: All righty. In today's episode, we're talking about how to build a community-focused business. This is a fun conversation about all things related to engaging stakeholders, just this community-based approach, to building, growing, and scaling a business. And also a lot of the messy behind-the-scenes stuff that, you know, we're known for here on this podcast, what it's like to run a business, what it's like to build a team and all kinds of things.
Especially if you are on the more perfectionist side of things, which I'm guessing some of you are. So my guest is Pia Beck. She's the creator of curate Wilco, a consulting configuration and community platform that helps brands change narratives and redefine norms and industries desperately calling for something different.
I think what she does is just epically cool. She has a background in people and operations in the tech and startup worlds. She has taken that experience and some concepts she's learned in her past careers, her natural inclination to consider all of the details and care deeply about the people she's working with.
And she's built out this full-stack approach that Curate Well.Co is known for. So I had a ton of fun with this interview, and it got my wheels spinning on many different things we touched. So I hope you enjoy this conversation.
Welcome. Welcome, everyone. And welcome, PM. I'm so glad that you're here.
[00:01:35] Pia: Thanks for having me. I'm so happy to be
[00:01:36] Jordan: here. Totally. We have no idea what we're going to talk about. We may have a little bit of an inkling, but I'm just excited to chat with you about your business model, how you've grown and just see what comes up.
I think it's going to be fun. Yeah, same. Okay. So when I say that, first let's do an intro, but then I, what I'm going to ask you is. What's the first thing that we should talk about? Okay. So just, heads up, but go ahead, give us an intro and some context of who you are and what you.
[00:02:05] Pia: do. Cool. So my name is Pia Beck, and my business is called Curate Well.Co and we help brands change narratives and redefine norms in their industries that we think and they think they are desperately calling for something different.
And we do that through our whole stack approach, which is very much consumer-centric. And so we help our clients with everything brand-building related. Full stack is technical. And it means both the front end and the back end. So the front end is things that your community sees, right? Like your website, your social media content, emails that go out, and anything the consumer gets to interact with, basically.
[00:02:48] Pia: And then the back end is everything that powers that engine, right? So it's your project management software, your CRM software, your policies and procedures and all those good things. And we believe that when you take a whole stack approach, which is both front end and dddddddd, you're able to create a more integrated whole that better serves your customer.
And so, we help our clients build brands; sometimes, that looks like work on the front end. Sometimes it seems like work on the back end, and sometimes it's genuinely full stack, and we touch every single part of their
[00:03:25] Jordan: business. Yeah, super cool. And I love that you're using technical nerdy terms for this.
And I think it is interesting that, of course, it's gonna be a better experience for clients, customers, all of that, but, oh my gosh, is it gonna be a better experience for the business owner too? Like, this is the, oh totally. This is the stuff like not having this kind of comprehensive approach to your business is the number one thing that leaves business owners just like
[00:03:54] Pia: totally frazzled, a hundred per cent that, that like fractured approach and experience is, has become really, really common, right?
Like, I'm gonna do this piece over here. I'm gonna hire this person to do this piece. I'm gonna, you know, approach this piece and, you know, put that piece off for a while. Like we, we kind of fell into this. A fallacy about like growing a business that, you know, you have to do it really leanly and kind of like one piece at a time.
And, you know, I definitely believe in lean growth and being really mindful of like where our resources go. And one of the things that I think people really don't realize is like, we can't design a beautiful website for you if we don't know what you're driving people towards, yeah. Right. Like it's, it's just not gonna do what you want it to do.
It's all connected. So I'm with you on yeah.
[00:04:50] Jordan: Oh yeah. Yeah. And I mean that like permeates, I think everything in the business, that type of like thinking, and that like different approach and even that piece about. Well, we can't make decisions about big things, like what your website needs to look like or how it needs to function, until we can like back into that and know, well, what's the end goal.
And yes, that is the case for big decisions. But I even see that with our clients and with myself all the time that you can't make decisions about little things effectively, if you don't have that like really big context, like what do I need to work on next week? Well, I can't answer that question unless I know what I'm selling next month really, or the next month, or what's my goals for 20, 23
[00:05:38] Pia: or whatever.
Yeah. A hundred per cent. And even bigger than that, like the, like the big vision, like what's, what are you, what's your purpose? What are you doing? Right. Like everything that, everything that we do comes down to like, why are we here? Yeah. Right. It's a privilege to have a platform. It's a privilege to have a community of people who look to you for resources, information, support, services, opinions, whatever, right?
Like that's a privilege. And it's like, if we're gonna show up here, like why? Yeah. Like what's the belief that's like actually driving our 20, 23 goals next year or what we're selling next month or like all of the other
[00:06:16] Jordan: things. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. I love it. Okay. So back to my question, when you think about your growth specifically in your business, what comes to mind as being like a really critical piece?
Hmm. That's a good
[00:06:34] Pia: question. So there've been a couple of really significant learnings for me. and what I'll say to kind of like ground my answer is that, you know, everyone talks about running a six figure business, right. And then running a seven figure business and. we, I built a six figure business quickly and easily in retrospect, right?
Yeah. like within a couple of months and by myself and without any sort of infrastructure and like, it just, you know, everyone kind of like, it it's an important benchmark, but in retrospect it was like the easiest thing I've done since starting my business. everything that has come after that, as we've continued to grow and hire and, you know, pursue all of these other benchmarks is, like that's, that's been the hard part.
Right? Like I look back at like my goal of like having a six figure business. And I was like, oh, oh, life was so easy when I had like, nothing else to worry about. . and so, you know, there's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a benchmark that I think is. Notable. but it's, it's not the be all end all. And what I would say to anyone who's like kind of working towards that right now, or living in that world is like, do it, but like, there's always gonna be like a next benchmark for you.
And it doesn't actually matter. And the learnings that I've had in our growth, it's been like messy, hard learnings. What happens in those conversations, in those decisions, in like that refinement of processes and like that like executive decision making, like that's the growth that I'm most proud of. And like, those are the things that I think matter most for the future of your business.
So there've been a couple things. I am someone who's always had a hard time, like letting. Right. like when people are like, like, just go with the flow, right. Like, you know, why, why are, you know, don't be so structured, whatever. So I, I struggle to, to let go. And also I'm a type one on the Enneagram. I don't know if me too, you're familiar.
Okay, cool. So I'm a refiner, right? So like, I see the possibility in everything. Right. I'm like, I see this thing here and like, oh, but it could just be like that. Right. If it was just, just a little bit more that's perfect like this. Right. Exactly. And so, you know, people, people. Call that perfectionism.
And what I experience is actually just like a really fierce belief in possibility. Right? Like I see something and I'm not like, let's make it perfect. Right. Let's dehumanize it. I'm like, oh, you know what would be really cool? Mm-hmm right. Like, it's, it's just like that vision of like two steps further. So anyways, I like to hold onto things.
That's the whole point of this explanation. And one of the biggest lessons I've had to learn is to fail fast, which really requires like letting things go. So much earlier in the process like that first inkling, that first gut feeling of like, this doesn't feel right. This isn't right. This isn't working like learning to accept that right away, without question, and just like fail faster.
So I can move on to like the next thing that has been one of the hugest factors in our growth. And I'm still not like amazing at it. Right. There's times where I still don't do that. but I've gotten a lot better at it. And I think that that's a big part of what's allowed us to, you know, really focus on the things that matter and, and feed those things and, and experience that growth.
So that's one thing that's been, been huge for me. and I think another thing that I'll say about our growth is community. we are now starting, a new venture that we're not quite ready to talk about yet at the time of this recording, cuz things are still very much in motion, but it's been such a good reminder for me that.
anytime you are initiating something, anytime you are starting something, anytime you are building something, you have to socialize it, right? Like you have to take this idea that you have and communicate it in a way that's resonant to the people around you, right? Not just you, not just your team, not just your customers, but you really have to be like, I need to get all of the people around me, like on board for this idea.
I need to talk about it in a way that's relevant to them and what it means for them. And when I was building Curate Well.Co in the beginning, I just like leaned so heavily into community. Right. I was like hosting in person workshops. I was networking with everyone I could possibly meet. I was, you know, really just taking a very grassroots approach to growing the business.
And we still do that. But, you know, we got to a point where I didn't have. Do it as much because we kind of had this, this lovely engine running. And now that we're kind of starting from scratch on this expansion and we're, you know, doing something new, we've gone back to community and we're taking this grassroots effort and really like socializing, curate Welco into our local community here in Santa Barbara, where I'm based.
And it's been such a good reminder that like nothing can replace that. No amount of social media ads, no amount of like sexy copywriting, no amount of automation or funnels, like nothing replaces connecting with real people, getting real feedback and enrolling people into what you're trying to do. Like that is just the STR I, I so firmly believe that that is the strongest foundation that you can build for your business is to be surrounded by a resourced community.
[00:11:57] Jordan: Okay. Tell me more cuz I'm, I'm very, I'm intrigued about what you're talking about. Are you talking about specifically like. Boots on the ground, local people who are in your community, like physically in your community.
[00:12:10] Pia: So not always right, like for us right now, because of this expansion that we're taking on, that's what we're doing.
Boots on the ground locally, literally like in our geographic community. Yeah. And, and it doesn't have to be like that. Right. It can be virtual, it can be in online communities. It can be on social media, it can be everywhere. so it's, it's a both, and, and it really depends on what you're trying to do and where and where those people are.
Right. Mm-hmm just going back to that consumer centric approach, it's like, well, where are the people who like, need to be involved in this and like go to them. and so, you know, we do this in our membership, our online community, I'm in a number of other online communities. we do it on social media with kind of like our broader community as well.
And yeah, it's just going out of your way to connect with people, like really connect with them, right. Not like, oh, Hey, I stumbled across you on social media and thought I'd reach out and say, hi. It's like, oh, Hey, I saw that you had a baby recently. Like how, and you came back to work really quickly.
[00:13:13] Pia: Like, how is that going for you? Like, I have a friend who, you know, this is her first week back at work after having a baby. And she's like, totally overwhelmed. Like, how are you, Jordan? How are you doing? Right. It's like human . Yeah. like actually really connecting with people and then taking the initiative to like, take it one step further and like have a real conversation and, and yeah, socialize and, and integrate your idea with the people
[00:13:39] Jordan: around you.
Yeah. Tell me some more concrete ways that you're doing that. yeah. Like yes, definitely have conversations with real people. super important. But then, especially as you, as you mentioned it with how it relates to like, as you're creating something new in your business, what does that look like?
[00:14:01] Pia: Yeah, totally.
So, okay, so I'm gonna just kinda like start at the beginning because it's, it's a process, right? Yeah. So like this thing that we're working on right now, is something that I've been thinking about for years and years and years, and have been working on for a year. Right. And like, we're not even talking, it's not even out yet.
We're not even talking about it yet. Right. We're like, we're close, we're so close, but like, not quite so like it takes time, depending of course, on like the scale of whatever it is that you're doing. Right. So like if you're launching a podcast, which we did earlier this year as well, that's very different than, you know, it depends on the SI like the length of time depends on the size of what you're doing.
So. Starting all the way at the beginning. the very first thing I like to do is get the idea out of my head onto paper. Right. And I do that through like, why, how, what, why are we doing this? How are we doing it? And like, what is it? So like short sweet, just like, here's like the bare bones concept of this.
And then I think about like, what are the problems that this is solving, right. So like, why, why is this worth people's time, attention, money, et cetera. Like, what's it gonna do for people? what problem is it gonna solve? How is it gonna empower them? How is it going to create a ripple effect out into the community?
That's beneficial for a lot more people. so like, what's the problem it's solving. Once I have that core bit of information, I'll run it by a very small group of kind of like trusted people, but people who have. like informed context. Right? So like, I can take that idea and run it by my partner. Who's a quantum physicist and he's gonna be like, yeah, cool, babe.
Love it. he doesn't know anything about anything. and I don't know anything about anything about what he does either, right? Like he's not, he's not informed he can be supportive. He can give me feedback from a different perspective, but he's not really gonna be able to help me like, validate that idea.
Right. So I pick people who I know can either validate or invalidate the idea based on the context that they have. And, I'm like gut reaction. What's your thought on this? And just like, and like, then I, you know, let them talk or whatever, but I'm really paying attention to like right away immediately.
Like, what's her first reaction to this idea? And then once I have a little bit of validation, there may be like some tweaking in there based on, you know, that initial reaction, whatever. Then I start to, conduct kind of like wider discovery. So I have a lot of conversations with a lot of people. You can do this through like social media, right.
Through interviewing people in your community. what I prefer to do is think even wider than that and like kind of categorize the people I'm having conversations with. So you want conversations with potential stakeholders, right? People who are gonna buy into either literally or figuratively, this idea, you wanna have conversations with people who've done what you're trying to do and are just like, here's the one lesson that I never thought I was gonna have to learn.
And it like knocked me on my ass. And like, I'm telling you now, like, you wanna talk to people who've done. Right. And then, you wanna talk to people who are going to be like affiliates and champions of what you're doing, right? Like, would you get behind this? Would you talk about it? Would you spread word of mouth, et cetera.
And then you wanna talk to people who know all the things that you don't. Right. So like, I was talking to, to someone on a networking call earlier, and she used this phrase that I absolutely love, which was chief everything officer. Like, you just can't be right. Like, I don't know, like the legal structure that I need for XY.
Like I need to talk to someone who's like, way more qualified than I am in like certain things. So like, know your limitations, it's worth it to pay those people for their help. . Yeah. and so I, then I figure out all the things that I like didn't know. I didn't know, once I've done like deep, deep, deep discovery, then I start putting together like a pretty polished.
Pitch, right. Maybe this looks like a pitch deck. Maybe it looks like a Google doc. Maybe it looks like Instagram slides. Maybe it looks like a script. I mean, whatever, it can come in, whatever format you want, the format is dependent on the situation. And, then I get it out to people I'm like, here's who here's, who I'm gonna pitch this to.
And let's just like start getting some buy-in. so we did this with our podcast. Actually, we launched our podcast with, a couple of sponsors, which is something I'm really proud of because that's pretty unheard of if you're not like a celebrity. and it was through this process, right. I like went to certain people and was like, Hey, like I pitched them the podcast.
I pitched them, the opportunity made it relevant and resonant to them and it worked. and so then I'll start pitching it. And then once you've got buy-in from, you know, a critical mass of people, then it's about getting into action, which I think is honestly where a lot of people. Get stuck. I see a lot of people when they get to the point of taking action, kind of go back to the idea and like wanna change it again.
And, my opinion, again, taking a consumer centric approach is that the only way, you know, what to edit is through consumer feedback, right? Like you have to start somewhere, you have to take action, you have to do something, you have to put out a consumable, something actually deliver it, actually see how it goes, actually see what the feedback is, and then edit the features, release new features, make it better, change it, rethink it, whatever, based on the people who are actually giving you money and what they have to say about it.
Yep. and so getting into action is, excuse me, is really, is really important. we work, in an agile format, which we can talk about later. and so we kind of timeline and sprint out. our action plan. and then we start doing what we can and when we get hung up on one thing, we, you know, kind of say, okay, I can't move forward on this thing.
What can I move forward on over here with a goal to just take weekly action until the thing happens? so high level, that's kind of like what it looks like, some more tangible examples and what it's looked like for us very specifically is, a ton of like in person coffee dates, networking with people in our community of all those various types.
I mentioned, and not being afraid to like ask questions, right. Like I don't go into that with like, tell me what, you know, I go into that with like a list of questions where I'm just like, based on who you are and what you've done, these are the things that I think, you know, and I'm just gonna like pepper you with questions until you tell me to stop um,nicely, right?
Yeah, of course, of course. and so we've done a ton of networking in person. we've also done a ton of like local market research. So we got really narrow on our market research and we did a really heavy like competitor. Analysis and like landscape, right. What's out there. What are strengths? What are weaknesses?
And we actually consumed a lot of that ourselves too. So we looked at, you know, what's available online and kind of like formed our opinions or whatever, but we actually also like spent money and like went around and like consumed different people's products so that we could really like validate again, our observations or invalidate them.
it's also looked like joining a lot of, community groups. So again, going back to like the importance of community, it's always easier to get into a group of people than to like, kind of pull one person at a time into your community. Mm-hmm like, go where your people already are congregating. And so we've gone to, a whole bunch of like local networking groups, right.
[00:21:10] Pia: There's like a YPO group. There's like, women in business, there's like women economic ventures. There's like all these, you know, organizations, that attract different types of people. And so we've been making an effort to go to all of those events, and get more involved from there as well.
[00:21:24] Jordan: Yeah, man.
Okay. I, I wonder if everyone listening is like, Ooh, where are we gonna go with this? Because there's so many things, there's so many things that we could, we could, go down rabbit holes on that you talked about. So let me see if I can like pull out the ones that I think might be quick. I mean, this all sounds like market research.
I mean, generally, right. But it it's almost like expanded out to include stakeholders as well, instead of just like focusing on the people that you're going to sell to, which I think is really cool.
[00:21:56] Pia: It's market research, but it's also enrollment, right? Mm-hmm so we're not just gathering information.
We're actually enroll like actively enrolling people, the people who, who, who wanna be enrolled. Right. Right. We're not trying to sell anyone who like doesn't wanna be there, but as we're doing this research, we're also identifying the people who are the right people to be involved in some way or another.
Right. As a partner, as a stakeholder, as a customer, as an affiliate, as a friend, a champion, whatever. And then we're enrolling them and that's in my opinion, a, a leadership skill, right? Yeah. Of like, how do we really, emotionally, logistically, socially invite someone into something that we're doing.
[00:22:37] Jordan: Yeah.
Yeah. I love this too, because it it's giving me flashbacks to my first business. And you differentiated between. Asking people who, you know, like, Hey, what do you think about this idea? And some people are gonna be qualified to give you an answer and some people aren't. Yeah. and that's not that you don't, you know, run it by your, your husband or your, you know, mom or whoever they play a different
[00:23:07] Pia: role.
Right. Right. They
[00:23:08] Jordan: play different roles, but we don't necessarily need to be making financial business decisions based on the fact that our mom thinks it's a great idea, which sounds obvious, but that's not actually like, that can be applied to even potential customers. And I think people get, get into this sometimes.
And they, they, it's almost like a fallacy of like, if I, if I ask a bunch of my potential customers, if they think this is a good idea and they all say yes, then when I actually offer it to people to buy, they're gonna buy. And that just doesn't. Always happen. Exactly. And so how are you hedging specifically against that when you're getting your feedback?
[00:23:47] Pia: Yeah, totally. I, I love that you brought this up cuz it's so true. Right. And I think it's one of the most frustrating things for business owners when you're like, they asked for it and I made it and now they're not buying it, like what is going on? I've experienced that. I'm sure you have too. I think everyone has at some point.
Right. And it's so frustrating. So , I'm so glad you brought that up. I think that, okay, so there's a couple things here. And part of it is that enrollment piece I was talking about. Right. Which is just because someone says they want something doesn't mean that they are enrolled and bought into it. Right.
You still have to. You still have to do that part, right. Validating an idea and enrolling someone into the idea such that they actually opt in are like two different things. So part of it is that like enrollment piece that I was talking about and as part of that, and also like maybe adjacent is, the, the kind of like strategic work you do to actually deliver the product part of which requires like selling it to people.
and so I think what that looks like is being really thoughtful and intentional of how you actually build the offer. Right. So you've got this idea, how you actually build it, I think is, a next step that. I don't know that people always put as much attention on as they could or don't go into as much detail about as they could.
[00:25:07] Pia: And there's kind of like the, you know, technical part of that, but then there's also the consideration of like, is it marketable? Right? So, You might, you, as you're, as you're like, kind of crafting the features of whatever you're delivering you wanna think ahead to like, how am I gonna market that feature, right.
Not just how do I build the feature, but how do I build the feature such that I can talk about it in a powerful way. That's not a lot. Right? We want it to be truthful, obviously. Cause it's gonna catch up with you if it's not right. Like, I can't tell you how many people I know who are like, well, you know, I was marketed this thing and I bought it and I got inside and it's just like, not what it was like, that's not what we're talking about.
Right. But it's like, you know, like kind of really through and through integrity of these features, like, is it what people want? Is it designed to really, really solve their problems? And you know how to talk about it in a way that is resonant to the person that you're talking to. Mm-hmm so thinking ahead to like, how am I gonna talk about this?
How am I gonna market? This is definitely a consideration that I think a lot of people miss did,
[00:26:08] Jordan: did you do this? Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. And then I, you ask you off. Okay. Did you do this specifically with. The podcast. And can you give us a specific example of how you did that?
[00:26:18] Pia: Ooh. Okay. Good question. I love that.
So, yes, I did.
I'm thinking of how I wanna pose this example. Okay. So we did a lot of research about our podcast, right? Like how long do you want it to be? Do you like solo episodes? Do you like interview episodes? you know, all like, what are good ads? What are bad ads? What drives you nuts in podcast episodes? Like I have certain things where I'm just like, it just drives me freaking crazy.
everyone has that, right. We're like totally. I, yeah, so we did a lot of research about that, right. And then we actually go to like kind of, structure the episode, put together the messaging around the podcast and like why it exists and what we're doing. And, what we settled on was interviewing founders and business leaders.
[00:27:09] Pia: About not the tactics that they use. Right. So one of the things we were playing around with was like, well, do people want, you know, like actual, tangible, like advice about like, do this thing, take this approach. Let's talk about SEO. Let's talk about emails. Let's talk about like all of these things. and what we actually learned was that our community wants access to ideas and they don't wanna hear that idea explicitly.
They want a conversation that gets them to think of the idea. And so we ended up, interviewing founders and leaders about how they do business. Right. not why they started not, what their mission is, not the tactics that they use, but just like, yeah. How do you do business? Like, what does that look like?
What does your life look like? What does it look like behind the curtain? What are the tough decisions you've had to make? When did you fall on your face? what's made the biggest difference for you in your journey. if you were going to, say the thing that like no one else is willing to say, like, what is it, with the goal of our listeners, gaining access to ideas about how they can do business differently.
and so when I was thinking about like marketing that, I was thinking about, you know, okay, cool. We're going to. Interview leaders that our people need to know about. That was another big thing is I didn't wanna interview all the people that all of our people already know about. Right. I wanted to show them a new name of like, oh, who's that, that sounds cool.
[00:28:45] Pia: I've never heard of this person. so leaders you need to know about, and we're not talking about the latest trend or the latest tactic. We are telling timeless stories about running business and growing business. is that a
[00:29:00] Jordan: good example? Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And, and I think the specific thing I was wondering is like, as you're thinking through the features, which is what you were talking about, how are you actually gonna market those features?
And I think that's a great example. This is the content and the structure or whatever of the episode or, or the podcast or what your new offer or whatever it's gonna be and thinking through to, well, why did we make that decision? And then, and then how are we exactly going to explain that to people so that they again are like, oh yeah, that's exactly what I want.
And yep. I love everything that you said by the way about your podcast, and I'm gonna have to go listen to it. because I feel very similarly about what we've done with this podcast, because yeah. I mean, I love all kinds of podcasts and I think they all have their place. I personally don't like short form podcasts.
but that's a personal thing. I don't like, listening to something where at the end, I know someone's gonna sell me something. , you know? Yeah. I'm like, if you're talking about SEO and what you sell as SEO, like just, I'm not into that. Right. And so for the most part, the people that I have on this show, Are not talking about anything that they actually sell.
[00:30:10] Jordan: Totally. Now there's some exceptions to that. of course, and there always will be, but for the most part, we're looking for that behind the scenes stuff that you're talking about, like what are the conversations that, that we should be having that we're not really talking about. Exactly. Exactly. and there's all kinds of things that you can talk about.
Oh, there's so many in that space and that's, what's so cool. Yeah, totally. so, okay. I have one more question about the podcast while we're on this tangent, and then we will, we will come back to kind of the, the bigger picture stuff we were talking about. The sponsors piece, I think is super interesting and you're right.
I haven't, I don't, I mean, I can't think of any examples of people who have launched with sponsors. And I think a lot of people are in two buckets when they think about launching a podcast, one. I'm gonna grow this podcast with the end goal of eventually having sponsors and that's how it's gonna be monetized.
And then other people are like, I'm gonna grow this podcast specifically to be like the place where I show up. And I sell my own things. Like those feel like the two big buckets. And I definitely fall in the latter bucket of, you know, this is my favorite way to create content. This is my favorite way to provide value to my audience.
And it's my favorite way for people to get to know me and if they wanna work with me. Fabulous. so I don't really have any intention of looking for sponsors. Yeah. But I wanna know more about that cuz maybe I'll change my mind. Yeah. yeah,
[00:31:28] Pia: totally. Okay, cool. I'll I'll tell you kind of my thought process.
So, I'll start by saying that I am kind of both of those categories, right? So what I. You know, I mentioned like kind of growing leanly earlier. And what I'll say is that similar to you? Like, I love creating content this way. I, just so enjoy like the expressiveness of audio and feeling like I am actually getting the chance to like, truly connect with people in a way that I think like an Instagram story, just like doesn't always succeed at.
and so I love this format of content, and like we're a business without bottomless resources. Right. And it, as, as I'm sure, you know, now a couple episodes in like producing a podcast is so much work. Yeah. Like so much work. like, if anyone out there is thinking about starting a podcast, like. It is a ton of work and you can systemize it and you can automate parts of it and you can, you know, make it as smooth as possible, but it still is just like time consuming.
[00:32:30] Pia: Right. like it takes a lot of time to produce a high quality podcast episode, let alone a season, in my opinion. and so I knew that I wanted to at least like, cover some of the costs. So for example, when we were building out our podcast, I felt really strongly about the music at the beginning.
mm-hmm for, for anyone who is listening. So I, was diagnosed at the end of last year with OCD. So there's like certain things that I like really hone in on that, like my brain just like latches onto and podcast music, like super randomly, like is one of those things. Like, I don't really care so much.
Like it's not like a values thing. It's mostly just like my brain literally just like notices podcast music. And so I was like, okay, if I'm gonna launch a podcast, like I gotta have like. Banger music at the beginning. so I actually hired, a local band, that did custom music for us. They wrote and recorded and produced a custom, like two minute track for our podcast music.
And so, you know, paid for that obviously. And then we had like legal agreements, right. So we had the legal agreement so that we could own that music. We have a legal agreement for people coming on as guests. and so those were upfront costs too. And so I was like, all right, if I just like, quote unquote, donate my time to like producing this, high value long form free content I still have some like, kind of fixed costs that I would really like to cover until the podcast is monetizable.
Right. and so I was like, Okay. Like, what would it look like to have some sponsors? we have a couple of brand relationships that I've been building for years. and so I approached those people cause we already had a relationship with them and I was like, Hey, I'm launching a podcast. I came to you first.
do you want to buy ad space on the podcast? It's gonna be super cheap because we're building this podcast from the ground up. So I'm gonna give you like really reasonable pricing. we can generate a custom code so that you can track it. and here's what I can promise to you in terms of like the quality of the ads.
you're gonna get a creative brief, you can approve all of the ad content. It's gonna be like storytelling focused. you know, I, I think this would be a really interesting way to get in with your community differently. and so, yeah, so we, we were able to cover. we're, we're not making money. on, on the ads from the podcast.
[00:34:49] Pia: Right. And, but we, but we were able to cover a lot of like the startup costs. I also have a awesome produce. I have a producer, right. Who I pay, who does all of the editing and whatever. So yeah. You know, there are like more costs to creating podcast content than like social media content, for sure. Just in general.
like there's more software subscriptions. There's more like the whole, the whole thing. So I wanted to at least just like cover some of the cost until the podcast really became profitable, which is the end goal eventually. Right. so that was my thought process on the other side, like, I, I am, you know, it is a platform for my voice, which is something I'm, you know, really, passionate about.
and it is a way to welcome people into our community. So we do run a Midroll a to our membership with a discount. and our membership is kind of like the first stepping stone for anyone who kind of wants to like. See what curate Walco is all about. Like join our community, get a feel for how we communicate and how we operate and the types of things that we can help with and the approach that we take to business and yada yada.
[00:35:46] Pia: So, so it's a long term game, I think, for both of those things. Right. And we hope that it is eventually directly profitable through sponsorships and indirectly profitable through, you know, inviting more people into our community that we're not necessarily, connecting with. Yeah.
[00:36:03] Jordan: In our existing channels.
I'm glad you mentioned the ad because I was gonna ask you exactly how you're integrating the ads. So for the folks who are paid sponsors, mm-hmm where are their ads going? And then you are reading them. Mm-hmm , you're like writing and then they're approving and then you're reading them. So they are more narrative based.
Yep. And then are they paying. A flat fee or as you grow, will their cost
[00:36:31] Pia: be tied to that? Yeah. Good question. So we have, so I put together a couple of different packages, right? Do you wanna be in every episode, do you wanna be in every other episode? and do you wanna be pre-roll or Midroll so pre-rolls at the beginning before you start midrolls about halfway through and they're priced differently, right?
And so we have two pre-roll sponsors. One of them is in every episode and one of them is in every other. So when you listen to our podcast, every other episode has either one pre-roll ad or two pre-roll ads. none of them are longer than. Like 60 seconds. So they are narrative based, but we tried to keep it like as short as we could while making a point.
Right. Yeah. Because I don't think anyone likes those ads where it's like, you're telling a story, but after five minutes you're like, okay, this is an ad. good story. But like get to the punchline. Right. Let's move on. So we tried to keep 'em pretty short and then we have one paid sponsor, in a Midroll ad.
And then we do our membership ad Midroll as well. And right now there's nothing post episode. Okay. Because that's the lowest value placement. Right, right. Cause people have gotten the goods and then they stop listening. Yeah. so the priced differently and we price it for the whole season. So we said, this is our first season and we're growing our listenership from the ground up.
So here's your flat rate for this number of ads for season one. And they paid that in full and they get season one and then we'll revisit and see if they wanna renew for season two.
[00:37:47] Jordan: I love it. How long is your season? How many episodes? 24. Are they in their, so they're weekly,
every other week. Okay.
[00:37:54] Pia: Every other week drops. Yep. Two a month for a year. Mm-hmm okay.
[00:37:57] Jordan: Okay, cool. Cool. Yeah. Well, as everyone listening knows, I like to, just pick brains about things that I'm personally interested in. So that's what that was. Everyone. Hope you enjoyed it. and it's, helpful too. A couple of you. alright, so let's see if we can find our way back to what we were talking about before I took us down this path or,
[00:38:15] Pia: or we can just pivot yeah.
Let's pivot that
[00:38:18] Jordan: whatever you want. What do you wanna talk about? What else seems like super important that we need to talk about? We talked about the community based approach. Was there anything else you wanted us to wrap up on that piece of
things?
[00:38:31] Pia: No, I feel like we really did justice to that. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I, I know that, a big theme for you in these conversations is like the, like what it really takes to, to grow business.
Right. And kind of the, like, not, you know, here's, what's going really well, but like here's. Here's all the Mel and messy things that happen. And I've got, I've got plenty of those stories, so. All right. yeah, maybe we go down that path. Let's do it.
[00:38:53] Jordan: What feels, what feels like a, a good lesson learned that you think is probably relevant to a lot of people
[00:39:00] Pia: so I think that, and, and you can probably speak to this too.
I think growing a team is like one of the most challenging parts of growing a business. Yeah. and I wasn't expecting that. Right. Like I have a background in, I worked in people ops, which is HR, before I started my business. And so I was like, yeah, no problem. Right. Hire a team. This is my jam. Yeah.
[00:39:24] Pia: Easy peasy. it's been, and it's been, so challenging in so many different ways to grow our team as our business has grown, that I was not expecting. And when I think back to like the hardest things that I've done in the last three years, like that is probably in slot number one. Wow. and, and, you know, I I'm, I have a great team right now.
They're they're awesome. and like, there's just like really real challenges that came along with like getting to that place. Yeah.
[00:39:53] Jordan: it's, it is definitely challenging and I think it's definitely challenging across the board for most people. Yeah. and obviously that's one of the big reasons of what my business does and why, what we do is so valuable is because we take that away for the most part totally.
From people having to worry about. Yeah. and it helps that knock on wood. I have been extremely fortunate. In the process of building a team that I have always found fantastic people I haven't had. I've had almost zero turnover. That's great in the last year. And it's so all of that to still say it's in insane challenge.
It it's, like you said, it's one of the most challenging things that I do that I do actively and have done, even though it's gone extremely well for me. And I've been, I think very fortunate in the grand scheme of things. And part of it goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning around being Ingram one and the control aspect.
And I was watching the grand prior diaries last night for everybody who wants to know what I do in the evenings. And Caroline Forbes was talking about how she was like, control is the only thing I have, you know, like yeah. And it can feel like that it can feel like that. it's your business. Yeah. It's your baby, especially if you're in engram one, or you have any kind of personality type that like falls into that bucket of like naturally wanting control over things and feeling like, you know, the best way to do it or being a perfectionist or whatever.
That's where I think the team challenges really come into play. Yeah. and I think you mentioned you're like, I'm still not like the best at it. Like, you know, it's like a learning process and I feel the same way. And I just sent a message to a couple people on my team right before I jumped on this podcast.
And I was like, here's all the things that I need to do this week. And I know for a fact that I am bottlenecking everybody else. Cause I haven't, I haven't gotten to a lot of these things and I probably have no business doing half of them. Please tell me what I should actually be doing and what I shouldn't, you know, it's like kind of learning how to manage yourself, is a hundred
[00:41:55] Pia: percent like the biggest piece.
Yeah, totally. that's awesome that you, that you haven't had any turnover in the last year. That's that's incredible. We had, I had
[00:42:02] Jordan: essentially no turnover. I've had one
[00:42:04] Pia: person drama. That's awesome. That's amazing. We have had turnover over the past two years, and. It's Ben's, it's been, so it's so hard, right.
To like ramp up someone new. And that's a big problem that we're solving in our business with our clients as well with our, our full stack approach is, not having to ramp up someone new, not having to play telephone between providers. yeah. You know, just kind of like integrating and we can talk about kind of our vertical
integration process, in a second, but, it's been so challenging, but it also just totally shaped who I am as a person and, and who I am as a leader and, and continues to.
Right. Like I learned a lot about myself to your point. and I also learned a lot about like the type of person that. Is going to like carry the curate well, co vision forward. Right. And, you know, on the note of failing fast and letting go, like, I, I just see so much potential in people, that I've had to get, I think a little bit more discerning about like, you're an awesome person.
I love what you're doing, but you're not gonna be happy here. You're not gonna, like the way we work. You're not going to enjoy the like level of refinement that we put into our client deliverables. And the fact that sometimes we stray out of scope because we know it's gonna make a difference. You're not gonna like, you know, how quickly we communicate and how quickly we work.
You're, you know, and I think that, I don't like to do that, but I've had to learn how to, because the turnover that we've experienced has just been because of that, right. People are like, this, this isn't the way I like to work. And it's like, that's fair. Right? Yeah.
yeah, I think part of the, the hard thing of doing that is.
[00:43:45] Jordan: really settling on what are those values that are very important to your business and to you as a business owner or manager or whatever. Yeah. And that was a big learning curve for me. And it took me a long time of figuring out, oh, this is why things aren't working with this person in this position because I value X, Y, and Z in this process.
Right. And I haven't even communicated that to people. Totally. I'm kind of just like expecting them to know, I guess, by osmosis or like by watching me, or like, I don't know what I was expecting, but that's a hard piece of like putting words to the values and the expectations and then like totally clearly communicating them
[00:44:23] Pia: to people.
Yeah, definitely. And I also think that we're like living in a time where so few people
Like say what they mean and mean what they say. Mm mm-hmm and as a type one, like you probably do that. And I do that too. so when I say something, I assume that people are gonna like, understand that I'm like saying what I actually mean. And so, yeah. I think you're right. That like yes, honing in on those values and communicating them for sure.
But I've also noticed that even when you do communicate them, I think that there's sometime as a disconnect of like, oh, I didn't realize that you, when you said like, you know, I don't know, radical ownership that you meant like radical ownership right. So that's been a learning curve for me too, of like, not only finding the language, but finding the language in like multiple different ways.
Yeah. and also explaining a little bit about myself and how I communicate and saying upfront, like I say what I mean, and I mean, what I say, like, if I'm saying. Like, I need you to hear it because like, it's, it's, it's the takeaway that I want you to have from this conversation. so that's been really, really interesting too.
yeah, we talk a lot in terms of transparency. That's the, the word that I use with clients, with team, with this podcast, with everything like that is one of our core fundamental values in everything that we do is transparency. And I actually mean that, like, I actually mean the word transparency. And then, so when I'm saying other things, it's because I'm being honest and transparent and that, that has to be a big, a big part of everything that we do and goes, I, I think I've talked about this on another episode around, radical honesty.
[00:46:04] Jordan: Yeah, totally. So hearing you say radical ownership, I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we're, we think we're on the same page here about a lot of these things, because. Radical honesty is super, super important. And I have to, I have to over communicate that to my team and constantly be like, seriously, no, I do actually want feedback and suggestions.
No, seriously. I do really wanna know what you think, where are the opportunities to improve? Totally. I don't want you to just agree with me because, because I'm the boss like, right. I need to know these things
[00:46:31] Pia: and it's actually important. And I think there's so much value in hiring a team that can compliment you on that, right?
Yeah. Like I have a, I have two full-time salaried employees on my team right now, plus a suite of part-time and contracted employees as well. or, or contractors, and, you know, I hired a really important position full time salaried recently. And, when that person came on, we had a little bit of like friction and she was really worried about that.
And I was like, this is great. I was like, this is what I needed in this role. I needed someone to push back, to hold me accountable, to speak up. And like, there's gonna be certain things where like, I do have the final call because I've been doing this for three years. And like, there's certain things that I know, but like, I need you to keep leaning into these conversations, right?
Like if you feel that friction, like, don't take it personally. Don't think that I'm just gonna override what you're saying. Like, that's I need that. Right. I need someone who thinks about it differently than I do, who would take a different approach than I would to like, do this with me. and I think that's, I think that's so valuable too.
[00:47:35] Jordan: Mm-hmm yeah, for sure. I think that's where as we've grown and. I think everyone knows we're, we've grown very, very fast. And so we have three employees and expect to have seven in the next 30 to 60 days, which is kind of like, and, and that's in addition to our contractors, right? So yeah, we have a team of over 15.
And so when you have that many people that you're managing, things, get, things can get a little wonky, like totally. And not in a bad way. It's just a big part of what I feel like my job is right now, as we're growing this fast and have so many people to manage is figuring out again, who needs to be in what seat.
Yep. and who are the people who I need to be thinking like me. Yeah. Versus who are the people who I need to be challenging me and thinking in a different way, because that is a totally, very different skill set. and they need to be in very D. Spots in hundred,
[00:48:35] Pia: the organization a hundred percent.
Totally. I have one of those too, where we, we think we're always on the same page we think really similarly and it's equally supportive in like a very different way. Yes.
[00:48:44] Jordan: Yeah, totally. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And, and I think this goes back to what we talked at the very talked about at the very beginning around what's the long term goal here.
Exactly. You know, and for me, the long term, big, big goal is to replace myself in, in several aspects of the business and then amplify what I do in other aspects of the business. Right? So like what parts of, because we have several different kind of like core functions of, of what we do. And one side of our business I can see in the future.
not being touched by me whatsoever, you know, like there's and, and that's so that the, so the way you structure things, when you know that big vision is gonna be very different than like totally had you asked me this six months ago, I would probably make, be making different management decisions about who needs to go, where, but now that I know, and I have clarity on the big, big thing, then I can get really specific and make the correct decisions for how to get there.
And I think, man, I mean, I don't even know. I, I wish I could like more concretely like put that into words, but it's just so important to have that big vision
[00:49:53] Pia: figured out it is. It totally is. Yeah. One of the questions I get most often is like, well, what if I don't know what that is? I'm like, that's fine.
but you need to figure it out, right?
[00:50:03] Jordan: Yeah. Like, like you said, experiment, fail fast. Like that. That's the only way
[00:50:07] Pia: to get there. Totally. Like, and, and I think that successful business owners, especially in times of hardship, like during COVID, or potentially during a recession, that's maybe coming like the businesses that sustain and, or like grow during those times are the ones that are just like, so fiercely attached to that, like that vision and that why.
And, and if you don't know what it is yet, like yeah, that that's okay. but you have, you have to know what it is otherwise when the hard days come you're, you're not gonna wanna keep doing what you're doing.
[00:50:40] Jordan: Yeah. And I think even, I think there's some, some things here that I wanna touch on just to make this feel more accessible to people because yes, you absolutely have to know this, but also.
It might change. Oh, totally. Also, you're not going to get it right the first time, but also don't forget, like don't, don't force yourself to like put it on paper if you're like, I really just don't know. I'm not feeling it. I, I think it, me, I actually just pulled out. I have it in my desk. This piece of paper right here.
That's got, it's like an exercise on, your core values, your like tenure vision. Mm-hmm, like, what's your core, like function as a business. And then you break that into kind of like three year, one year, 90 day goals. And I did that, like within a few days of getting this LLC obviously had been an idea before that, but, I pulled it out the other day, cuz it's been about a year and I was like, oh man, I was really off about some things.
And then other thing I was things I was spot on about and I, but I think that's okay. and, and just finding the time, like when you feel inspired to just try to get some of that stuff down and not making it mean too much and putting too much like emphasis on it, but trying to get something down because you never know what might come up on there.
I mean like the numbers that I put for how many employees and contractors that I have are like right on the money on this piece of paper, but some of the other things are like way skewed
[00:52:20] Pia: yeah. You know? Absolutely. Yeah, totally. It, it definitely is going to change, right? Yeah. With every client that you have with every quarter of business that you're in with every world event that happens your perspective shifts and you evolve as a person and you evolve as a leader and that's gonna inform.
what you're building in your
[00:52:37] Jordan: business. Yeah. And I'm big on like getting actual data. Yeah. Like get the data experiment, like see what people actually wanna pay for. Absolutely. See what things you actually enjoy doing. what feels easy, what feels hard and then you can evolve from there. And the other thing that I, I wanna touch on again, to try to make this more accessible, not build it into this thing that people are like, oh my gosh, I don't know, like scary runaway run away from trying to write those things down.
cuz I think there's, there's a lot of blocks that can come up on trying to do really long term big visioning for people. So definitely. Yeah. So the other thing that I have found is that it's okay. If you waiver in your commitment to the long term stuff, like as far as like day to day, You know, sometimes you just, like, I had a real bad day the other day and I was like, what the hell am I doing?
[00:53:27] Jordan: Like, why am I doing this? This is huge. Does it really need to be like, do my goals really need to be that big? Like, is that really how I feel? But 90, 95% of the time, like, I'm all, I'm all about it, you know? Yeah. And just being okay with the fact that you're probably gonna waiver sometimes.
[00:53:45] Pia: Totally. Yeah.
And I think a good kind of like litmus test for that is like, what is the thing you come back to, even if you do waiver
[00:53:54] Jordan: mm-hmm
cause
[00:53:55] Pia: like you're right. We all have shitty days. Like we all, and especially as business owners of businesses that are growing really quickly and have a lot of people involved. Like I have those days too, where I'm just like, what the actual fuck. Like, like, why, why did I do this? Why do I keep doing this?
Why does everything feel hard? Like, it's just like, like there's nothing. There's nothing else I can do. Right. I just have those days where I sit down on the couch and I'm just like, that's it like, I'm just, yeah. I have nothing left today. Yeah. and sorry, you can edit that out if you want. . No, it's good.
and like, I think that the, as you're like formulating this vision as you're experimenting as you're wavering, like when you get past the waiver, like what's the thing that you come back to.
[00:54:39] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I need to probably like think on that a little bit and have it as like a little sticky note on my computer.
for when I do have, yeah. Those days. Cuz I usually just like, eh, I just, I wouldn't say I shut down, but I definitely. Pull back and it, luckily it's, it's usually pretty short, lived a day, you know, or few hours. Oh yeah. And then it's like, okay, now I gotta like,
[00:55:06] Pia: get back to work. I also think it's really important as a leader to know what gets you back to equilibrium.
Yeah. Right. Cause like we do have those days, right. We have those days where it's just like, everything is hard. Everything's going to shit. These people need this. These people need this. These like I have days where I'm just like, my team needs this. My client needs this, my partner needs this. My parents need this, my dog needs this.
And I'm just like, I wanna shut down. Right. Yeah. And, I'm a, I don't know if you're into human design. I'm just like throwing out all the personality. Yeah. Metrics. So I'm a manifestor. and so that means that I, ha am I'm very, I'm an empath, right? Like I absorb other people's energy. I don't have like a defined energy center among other things.
And so there's days where it's just like everything. Is like raining down on me and all of these people are depending on me to initiate and like manifest all of these, like things for them. And I've, I've had to learn that in order to persist in order to persevere, in order to have resilience, I have to know how I come back to center.
Right. When I've had a really terrible day, how do I wake up the next day or three days later, or a week later, however long, it takes me to feel those things. When I come back, like, what do I need to do so that I can come back? Like, what are those things that bring me back to equilibrium? And I am like, not a ritual person, not a self care person.
I'm not a morning routine person. Like I roll outta bed. I make my coffee and I sit down and I read emails. Yeah. Like I like, I I've just, I it's, it doesn't have to be a big to do. Right. Yeah. But like, what are the things that bring you back to center? So like for me, it's going on a walk. I walk my dog every morning.
Because like, I that's what I need. Right. I like, I get up, I read emails, I do a little bit of work and then I'm like, okay, yeah, gotta reset. And like start my day over again sometimes. And so I go on a walk or, sometimes I need to like step outside and put my feet on the ground. Right. Or, sometimes I need to like take a shower.
Sometimes I need to like lay on the couch and be like, nobody talked to me. Nobody touched me. Like, I'm just gonna be here for 10 minutes and I'll be back in a second. so like, I think just really understanding how, like, how you recover and doing those things for yourself is really important and not making those things, what they like should be right.
Like for sure. There's days where. Like I don't, I sh you know, maybe I should like meditate, but I'm just like, I don't wanna meditate. That's not gonna feel supportive to me. Right. Yeah. I need to turn my brain off and like watch Netflix for an hour. And like, that's, what's gonna help me wind down from the day I
[00:57:40] Jordan: love, I love this because I am like pretty anti selfcare.
my, my coach. Julia's gonna be listening to this. And then she's gonna be like, that's not true. I, I I'm the same way. I don't have a morning routine or a nightly routine, or, you know, I don't know. I don't do the, the healthy boundaries thing around phone use, or like, I just don't do any of that. And, and I'm okay with that.
Like, I just do what I wanna do for the most part. Yeah. and so I like that you said it doesn't have to like, look. People tell you it has to look or whatever the things that you should do for me, it's getting in the car and driving somewhere like, oh, go to Starbucks and get a coffee and be by myself, love and listen to music in the car.
Like, just leave me alone. Or I'll pretend like I'm gonna go to work into my office and I'll watch TV on my computer. Like, whatever, whatever it is, you know? Yeah, totally. It can be last night, it was staying up till 1:00 AM watching vampire diaries in bed, you know, do your thing. Yeah. Do your thing. People doesn't have to be, you know, even though I do like a facial every once in a while, like do a little self facial mask or hot shower, I went to like a cool little foot spa this week, you know?
Yeah. Of course. I love all the luxury, air quote self-care stuff too, but, that's not always like feasible or the thing that you really need. Totally. Yeah. I love that. Okay. What else, what else do we need to talk about, man? There's so many. We probably have to do a whole episode on agile. I feel like.
[00:59:10] Pia: Yeah, that's a, that's a big one. I just put out a four email series on agile that we, converted into a blog post. So there's a very lengthy blog post on our website. That's cool that I can, that we can link in the show notes breaks it down in a ton of detail. That would be great. because yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a big topic.
[00:59:31] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I think we would need to do some like mediary education on that. Not like just for, not just for listeners, but to drop it into convers. Yeah. Yeah. Like let's we need to yeah. Do some intro stuff. well I think this has been awesome and. Again, like we didn't know we were gonna, where we were gonna go with this.
And I think everything we talked about was super valuable and helpful for me as, as these conversations usually are. So I appreciate that. we'll put in the show notes, all the deeds on where people can find you, all the things like that. Is there anything else you wanna leave us with that you think is just super important or on your mind?
[01:00:11] Pia: I think that, what I wanna say is, that, you know, there's, there's so many people talking about business growth as an entrepreneur, as a small business, as a quote unquote, online business. Right? There's just, there's so much of that, especially if you're on social media and I think every perspective is valid and I think everyone has the right to their own beliefs in their own way of doing things.
and mine is that if anyone is telling you that business growth is anything other than messy and human and hard and unexpected and nuanced and
complicated. And. Like, like, they're just, they're just not telling you the whole picture. I think that it's so common to talk about like, yeah, we, we grew really fast. We hit this major financial benchmark. We have a team of this size and that's great. Those are exciting benchmarks. We celebrate those.
You're celebrating those, like, that's awesome. But it's what happens like in between all of those things, that's like the really, really hard shit, right? Like the days where you're just like, what am I doing? Why isn't this working? Or like, I can't believe this person like sent me this email. That's so inappropriate or, cool.
I have to look up employment law in like, whatever. Like it's just, it's, there's just so much that goes into it. And you know, there's there's months where. revenue is high and there's months where revenue is low and there's months where intentionally you stop selling because you're like this process is really broken.
And I don't feel good about delivering this to another person until we fix it. And it's worth it for me to like, not hit that financial benchmark to like, make this a better product for people and like scale back. And I think there's just like this presentation, even though people are starting to talk about this, it still persists like this presentation of, you know, graph that looks like this, right?
Like continuous, upward momentum at a quick pace, no matter what. And like that is just not how it works. And I'm really super sick of people hiring mentors or giving their business to people who, who present it that way. Yeah. Because sure. It's sexy. It's trendy and like good for them if they're successful.
Right? Like we all wanna be successful. That's amazing. They're seeing success, but. I it's just not real. and you know, I think one of the biggest pieces of value that we provide to our clients is that we're really partners in what they're building. Right? Yeah. We're not gonna sit there and be like, your business should look like this.
It should perform like this. You should be hitting these metrics. Right. We're like, what is your industry call for? What is your industry's standard that we're like measuring against, right? Like what is like the messy thing that we need to like get in the weeds on so that we can like really fix this?
Like, what are the hard conversations that we need to have? And so, you know, just kind of coming back to like the central theme of what you're talking about here. Like, I think that even though people are quick to call out, like social media is a highlight reel. I still don't think that the conversations about like realistically what business ownership and what leadership and what entrepreneurship.
Can and will look like over the course of three years, five years, whatever is happening. Yeah. And, one of the most freeing things that I experienced was just deciding, like, I'm not gonna play that game. Right. I don't, I don't care who I get lumped into when people think about, you know, right. Like there, like there's these like short lists of like, oh, like this, these five people over here are like all kind of similar.
These five people do this. And I was just like, I'm not gonna play this game. Right. Like I am, I am going like off the grid. I'm gonna run my business in a way that feels in integrity to me. And I'm gonna work with clients who wanna run their businesses similarly, and I'm gonna follow my vision. And like, I'm just not playing this game anymore of.
Of pretending like it's like, it's all always fantastic in that every month is better than the last
[01:04:41] Jordan: spoiler alert. It's not always F fantastic. It's not. it's so funny cuz I, I feel very, very strongly about this as well. And I just posted a story maybe like last week of my daughter scribbling on the whiteboard, like just scribbles.
I mean she's two, like she can't write anything. and I was like, here you go. Here's your strategy to scale to seven figures overnight. That's it right there. Yeah. Good luck. good luck. Totally.
[01:05:04] Pia: Right. Because it doesn't exist. Like it's just, yeah, it just doesn't exist and yeah. And there's so many different ways to do it.
Exactly. Like it's, you can, there's so much money in the world and there are so many ways to make money. And I, I just feel so strongly that you need to work with people who believe that. Absolutely. And are willing to be a partner in that with you versus. Prescribe anything because you can't right.
[01:05:33] Jordan: It's scribbles.
It's not gonna work. You can't. Yeah. It's not gonna work. And, and it's, and, and there's so many factors and you touched on like several of them around like your industry and you know exactly what you're offering. That like, the way that you structure that can vary even within industry is, and it's also about like, what do you wanna do?
What the hell do you totally to do? You know? Totally. Like, what's your personality? Like, how do you like to work? Like what feels good like that? I, I agree. And I, I come, I just completely hate this narrative. That's still out there that I do think that it's going away a bit, but it's still, like you said, it's still persist.
I still get hit with the ads of like, Hey, here's the thing you need to do to like, make whatever, whatever I'm like. Yeah, no, that's just not true. Well and you know,
[01:06:15] Pia: what's really interesting. Like, it's, it's going away, but it's not in my opinion. Yeah. Right. So like, it used to be this narrative of like, here's what you do.
Here's what you need to do to like, be this person, make this amount of money. grow your business this way. Right. And with the, like, you know, following popularity of that language, it's just getting replaced by the next version of it. Mm. Right. Like in my opinion, it's not actually changing. It's the same people just talking about it, using different language.
Right. Yeah. And kind of just like masking it a little bit, versus actually working with people and empowering people and empowering yourself to like, yeah. Do it the way you wanna do it. Yeah. Like the, the, the businesses that we all look up to weren't born out of like doing things a certain way. Right.
They were born out of someone who was just like, I've got this idea that a lot of people are gonna think is absolutely nuts.
[01:07:14] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I always go back to like this experimentation, this like desire to experiment and like commitment to experiment in your business is just. Absolutely critical. And like you saw that said, that's messy.
It's not gonna be perfect. Totally things are gonna, some things are gonna work. I mean, my first business that I had, this is my third business, which I like, maybe I need to talk about more because like, it's extremely successful, but this is my third business, like, right. I have owned a business for a decade, right.
One business or another. And my first business, I went years without paying myself. okay. That's terrible. I don't want that for anybody, but yeah, the experiences that I had and the messy, terrible, awful shit that I went through for years and years is why I do things the way that I do things in this
[01:08:00] Pia: business.
Totally. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. I think that you make a really good point too, which is like, people are quick to praise experimentation, but then they hide. the implications of that. Right. And the implications of experimentation are like, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Yeah.
And if it doesn't, that doesn't mean that you don't know what you're doing. That doesn't mean that you're not credible. That doesn't mean that someone should hire someone else instead of hiring you. Right. It doesn't say anything about your capabilities. Other than that, you are capable of trying things and thinking differently than the masses and being like brave enough to risk something because you think it might work and you're willing to learn.
If it doesn't. .
[01:08:45] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I think I remember at some point, I think it was Tim Ferris who started asking his guests, like, what's an example of how you failed or something like that. And I need to like, maybe do an episode on that because yeah, there are so many things I have failed at like massively. Oh, like I've had, I've like my first initial clients that I had in this business, one in particular that I ended up having to part ways with.
And we've got an episode, about firing a client that's pretty juicy. And this one client that I had to, I mean, I was losing money. I was legitimately losing money, but the only way that I learned that and had that terrible experience of losing money was by doing it. Right. Right. And then I knew, okay, well, I don't structure my offer that way anymore.
I don't structure my contract like that anymore. Like you have. That's the benefit of the experimentation. And sometimes it goes really, really badly.
[01:09:37] Pia: Yeah, totally.
[01:09:38] Jordan: Yeah. Totally. I love it. Well, sorry guys, that wasn't a positive note, but I mean, it is, it is, it's just have fun with it, experiment with it.
You do, you, I think that's how I lended ended the last episode. So maybe you should say something to end it. So people aren't like, is that how it ends every
[01:09:53] Pia: time? yeah. What, what I can say is,
you're capable of solving a problem that no one else has figured out how to solve yet. The brands that we look up to, the iconic brands, the brands that we like love to consume, because it feels good and it makes us feel more like ourselves. Those brands identified a problem. That other people in their industry hadn't identified and they created a solution for that problem.
And, it required that they socialized their ideas. It probably required that they spend more money. Right. Cuz it probably wasn't the cheapest way to solve said problem. Otherwise someone else would've done it. they probably felt really lonely along the way because no one else quite understood what they were trying to do yet, but they did it.
And those people are just like you and are just like me and are just like all of us. Right. They're just people. And to your point, the only thing that they did, not the only thing, one of the biggest things that they did that, you know, their quote unquote competitors didn't do was just have the.
vulnerability and bravery and tenacity and resilience to try.
[01:11:21] Jordan: Mm mm-hmm and persist and persist. Mm-hmm yep. I love it. There you go. That's a good place to end. fabulous. Fabulous. Fabulous. Seriously. Thank you. This was, this was great. I really appreciate
[01:11:36] Pia: you being here. Yeah, this was an awesome conversation.
Thanks for having me, Jordan.