Ep#13 - How to create a simple product suite and sell with email with Rachel Lopez
For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode, visit https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode13
In today's episode, we’re talking about offers, launching, email marketing and more. We dive into the importance of welcome sequences, the struggles of having lots of ideas, and how to create intentional offers (and freebies).
My guest is Rachel Lopez, the founder of Gal Marketing - a boutique email marketing strategy agency focused on creating intentional marketing strategies for female business owners. She helps soulful entrepreneurs create intentional marketing strategies that help them attract, nurture, and convert their dream leads without fighting with the algorithm. She's spent the last 10 years building marketing strategies for businesses of all sizes to create intentional marketing plans that focus on lead generation & relationship building
Topics discussed:
Links/Resources Mentioned:
Connect with Jordan Schanda King:
Connect with this week’s guest, Rachel Lopez
*some links above are affiliate links which means I will get a small commission if you make a purchase with my link, but you will not pay any extra. I personally use and recommend these products!
Love what you heard. Reviews really help us out! As a thank you, you can get my 90-Day Planning Formula ($97 Value) by submitting a screenshot of your 5-star review at easyscaling.com/podcastreview
Ep#13 - How to create a simple product suite and sell with email with Rachel Lopez
For the full show notes and access to resources mentioned in this episode, visit https://www.easyscaling.com/blog/episode13
In today's episode, we’re talking about offers, launching, email marketing and more. We dive into the importance of welcome sequences, the struggles of having lots of ideas, and how to create intentional offers (and freebies).
My guest is Rachel Lopez, the founder of Gal Marketing - a boutique email marketing strategy agency focused on creating intentional marketing strategies for female business owners. She helps soulful entrepreneurs create intentional marketing strategies that help them attract, nurture, and convert their dream leads without fighting with the algorithm. She's spent the last 10 years building marketing strategies for businesses of all sizes to create intentional marketing plans that focus on lead generation & relationship building
Topics discussed:
Links/Resources Mentioned:
Connect with Jordan Schanda King:
Connect with this week’s guest, Rachel Lopez
*some links above are affiliate links which means I will get a small commission if you make a purchase with my link, but you will not pay any extra. I personally use and recommend these products!
Love what you heard. Reviews really help us out! As a thank you, you can get my 90-Day Planning Formula ($97 Value) by submitting a screenshot of your 5-star review at easyscaling.com/podcastreview
Ep#13 - How to create a simple product suite and sell with an email with Rachel Lopez
[00:00:00] Jordan: All righty. In today's episode, we are talking about creating a really simple product suite, going back to this concept of an Ascension model and also a lot about selling with an email that's Rachel's expertise. She's my guest today. She's the founder of gal marketing, a boutique email marketing strategy agency focused on creating intentional marketing strategies for female business owners.
So even though we intended to talk mostly about product suite, we couldn't help but talk about email mostly because I had some questions about things that I thought I needed to tune up in my own business around email. So we have a lot of fun. I hope you enjoy this conversation
welcome. Welcome, everyone. Welcome, Rachel. I'm so stoked that you're here. Yes. I'm so
[00:00:48] Rachel: excited to be a part of
[00:00:48] Jordan: this. Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun, which everyone knows. I say every time because it always is. So we're going to, we're gonna talk about product suite and, in particular, having a really simple product suite, which I think is gonna be a super cool thing to talk about.
But first, if you could give some context about who you are and what you do, that'd be super helpful. Yeah.
[00:01:12] Rachel: So I'm Rachel. I run a business called gal marketing, and it's essentially an email marketing agency, super small. Don’t take on a lot of clients just for, you know, brain space and all of that and quality.
But, I've used this practice as far as what I call an Ascension suite in my own business and in my client's business. And yeah, I've been in the space, a marketing space, for about ten years now. I escaped the corporate world after about eight, and I am very, very happy to have escaped. And now I'm, you know, helping businesses implement these like truly sustainable strategies into theirs.
Helping businesses. Yeah. Helping business owners into their own lives, just so that, like, it doesn't feel like this massive burden. Just because you don't have a team of 20 people managing all of your marketing like true sustainability is the ultimate goal. So
[00:02:07] Jordan: yeah. Yeah. I love it. We're all about that too.
And marketing does like marketing in particular just feels; it’s like the big thing that everyone's like, I need to wrap my hands around this. Like it's just so much, and there are so many things that you can do. And like you said, there are tri and right strategies. There's, there are simple ways to approach it.
[00:02:32] Jordan: I was actually just talking with a gal a few minutes before we got on, and I originally was like, oh, I need to hire someone to do like my social media marketing. And then I really got to think about it. And I was like, I have like more leads than I can even take on. Like, why am I worrying about it. Like what's the purpose, like marketing is to get more clients, right?
So like, if I have all the clients I need, why the heck am I thinking about paying someone to do my marketing anyway? That’s a side note. But I guess the moral of that story is to remember what the purpose of things is. Yes. Like before you make decisions like that and you invest in things, but you know, that's not really what we're here to talk about, but maybe we'll get back to it.
Yes,
we
[00:03:14] Rachel: can total. Oh my gosh. I have so much to talk about when it comes to marketing, just cuz it's typically, I would say, a hundred per cent of the time over-complicated, like a thousand per cent. So yeah, we can dive into that. Let's do
[00:03:29] Jordan: it. Yeah, we're gonna, yes. I think I think we're gonna earmark that and probably come back to it because I wanna talk about product site
i, I am obsessed with product suite, just in general. I do a lot of work around designing product suites and simplifying product suites and, you know, that type of stuff for my clients. And it's also one of the most fun things that I get to do for my own business. I always talk about how sometimes I feel guilty about how much time I spend working on my own business versus like my client's businesses, but, you know, those are the things.
When I spend time on them, they translate to being really valuable, valuable expertise and valuable information for my clients. And so I need to not feel bad about it, but product suite in particular is something that I love, love, love to experiment with and think about and play around with. So you mentioned specifically that you have a.
Simple product suite and you always have, so, yeah. Was it ever complicated and it came back to becoming simple or have, did you start with simple and you've just stuck with it cuz it works.
well I will say despite working in corporate and working with all of the different businesses that I've had, when you join and become your own business owner, like when you kind of like join the digital world and all of that, you are overwhelmed and hit with all of these expectations of how your business should look, what your business should have and all of these various components.
[00:05:02] Rachel: And I will say when I first started out, I was like, I'm actually literally writing an email about this. I was like, let me build a big funnel. And I'm like, why I don't have, I have no audience. I have no, you know, traffic that I'm trying to push into this and. That was my like first thing I was taking this like massive thing.
I was like, I'm gonna put a trip wire in here and I'm gonna, I'm gonna put this in here. And then I'm gonna make a group coaching program when I had yet to solidify, like my actual core core offers, I would say now what has existed in my business has probably been there about 90% of the time, but it was clouded by all of these things that were just creating massive chaos.
And now that I've kind of ripped away that like, you know, the, the components of, I don't need this, I don't need that. And like, if somebody is ready to work with me at this stage, then they have a next step and then they have a next step. Like I would say to simplify it all. My main goal is client retention.
Like I want to make the one lead that I've captured the most expansive journey. Rather than saying, I need 20 more leads in order to meet this. I'm like, no, I can put this person here, then they're gonna go there. And then they're gonna go to the next step because you've designed that product suite in a, in a way that like supports people throughout their journey.
So that's definitely lots of mistakes, lots and lots of mistakes. Yeah. Lots of listening to people say, do it this way and not actually listening to what I wanna do in my own business, but you know what? I think we all do that.
[00:06:46] Jordan: for sure. That's part of the process. Right. But I think it's interesting for a couple reasons because people, I don't hear people talking about Ascension models anymore, and I don't know why, like it kind of has fallen out of Vogue.
And I think it's partly because we're getting marketed and sold all of these different. Offers and, you know, formulas and strategies and ideas all the time and Ascension models have just kind of become one of those things that people talk about, but it's, it's, it's not in the forefront anymore. And it used to be, I feel like kind of the, the thing that you, that you did, and yeah, I almost feel like launches have distracted everyone, cuz like launches are the things that like whatever you're launching, you're launching a digital product or you're launching a membership or you're launching your one on one or you're launching a group, like whatever you're launching.
It's like the launching piece that I feel like is distracting everyone. And I think maybe this is a hot take I don't know. We'll see what comes out. the bookmark it, it feels like really not the best model. To just to be launching well to
[00:08:05] Rachel: well, and also to embrace like introverts extroverts in business.
Yeah. Like if you look at that, like, I am a massive introvert launches, drain the soul, my body, it makes me hate my business and maybe I'm launching wrong, but like, I will say anytime I have people come to me, especially when it comes to email marketing and launching, we always assess energy level. Like what do you, how much do you want to give in this launch?
We can set up all of the posts we can. I mean, obviously being prepared is another thing too. I feel like people that people don't prepare themselves for the energy that comes with a launch, but, but yeah, I mean, Ascension models, when it comes into it, they have been distracted by launches, but Ascension plans work for both service providers and for coaches.
And that's the beautiful thing about it is that it flips into both sides of, online business. It launches not, not so much with, service providers, like, you know, either you have a spot available or you, you don't, it isn't until you flip into that coaching side, that then those massive launches kind of take, I don't know, take toll and, and run the marketing calendar.
[00:09:25] Jordan: Yeah. And I think, and let me back up and say folks that I'm not against launching, like I launch things, all of my clients launch things like everybody's launching things. I think the thing that I have a beef with is that if that's your only strategy is like, whenever you need cash, you decide you're gonna plan a launch.
It's going to create this like feast and famine, like roller coaster in your business. And I didn't even realize that until kind of recently. I was talking to a client and I had actually just gotten off of a call with, a mastermind call that I'm in, not the one that I run and hearing people talk about kind of the, some of the things that they're struggling.
And it hit me like so hard. I was like, oh my gosh, like, I don't worry about cash flow. I don't worry about that type of stuff. And like one month being down and another month being up because almost a hundred percent of my revenue is recurring revenue because of the way that I've structured my business.
Like, so if I say that I'm having like a 40 K month. It's not usually like, oh, a boom 40 K month. It's like, well, that's just my repairing revenue now. Like, it's, that's a very different experience, than like, oh, I had a 40 K month, but then the next month, if I don't launch something, I have a zero K month, you know, or I have like a two K month.
So I just, yeah, I hadn't ever realized that. And now I've got kind of a beef with launches and I'm trying to think more, not necessarily for myself, but for my clients. Like what are some other ways that we can integrate some more sustainable, more sustainable offers and revenue streams that don't rely on launching.
And so that's why I've kind of come back around to like, Ooh, this Ascension model seems really important to talk about. So talk to me about how you, how you've structured, that, how it's evolved over the
[00:11:22] Rachel: years.
Yeah. So I always try to think of my ideal client or customer avatar. I know people are kind of like throwing ideal client out the window cause they're like, you know, whatever people have issues with so many things, I'm like, I don't know how to keep up with this, but I look at the person that I want to work with.
And I look at them in the various stages of their business. So the evolution that they might have taken from when they started to realize they have a problem that I can serve. And then in the middle, what is something they're gonna have with? So any client that I work with, I break it down like that.
Obviously price point people, depending on your ideal client, depending on that, they're going to have different. App to like appness to be like, oh yes, I can spend this much money to solve this particular problem then, because you have so much
clarity and this is what I will preach until I am blue in the face clarity in your business and who you serve will literally answer every single problem that you might have when you start to realize, like, I'll give an example, cuz I think real life examples are probably more, easy to digest is I had a client who had this, offer its less than $500 and people were eating it up.
People were like, yes, give me this. But she didn't have a next step. So all of these leads that we had worked so hard to convert and like these were like juicy, obsessed, like raving fan leads. They had nowhere to go afterwards. So we had worked so hard to capture those people. We know we didn't solve their problems like, well, we did solve their problems, but we know we didn't like solve all of their problems.
We solved the problem that they were existing now. But because we know that in three months, in four months, like they might struggle with X, Y, or Z. And not, we're not there to support them because we have no container, no bucket, no offer to put them to point them towards, they were kind of just falling off into limbo.
So most of the time when somebody doesn't have a, like a true Ascension product suite, they can see that situation in their business. So that's always where I start. So I say, where do the leads that came so easily? Where do they go? What happens to them next? You just try to push them into the same offer and like, you know, Mentally be like, you had so much fun in this one going to it again, kind of thing.
Like, no, you don't, you create that ladder for them. You say, okay, next, here you go. So that's always where I start is like, where are these gaps? What are people asking for? How do you know you can serve people in that next space and phase of their journey with you? And then, you know, obviously I'm a nerd when it comes to like automations and email marketing and funnels and things like that, and really understanding your customer journey and then embracing the automation side.
Oh my gosh. You will never have to launch another day in your life only if you ever want to, because you have so many connective relatable, like relevant funnels going to the right people. It's gorgeous. I
[00:14:44] Jordan: love it. Like, I'm glad you're getting excited over here. because I wanna talk about that more, but I wanna touch on something you said around, like having somewhere for people to go after they've finished one product and it it's so like, duh.
Right. But it's so easy to miss, especially when you get caught up in the process of creating this offer, you know, launching the offer, running the offer, like you're so worried about filling it that you don't ever think about it. And it's, it's a simple question to ask yourself when you're planning out whatever offer it is, whether it's one that you've run before or one that you're planning in the future.
But it's a question that I ask with almost all of my clients when we're doing any kind of launch planning, it's like, okay, well then what are you gonna sell at the end? What's the next step. Well, okay, so we're going, we're gonna take them through any length of program, whether it's five days or 12 weeks or six months.
Well then what's their next step? What are we selling them after that? And if you don't have an answer for that, we probably need to create something or rethink the structure of the product suite. And it's just like a very simple question to ask yourself every time you launch it. Okay. But then what, then what am I selling them?
And having that prepped and not waiting until it's over to be like, oh shit. Now I've got all these people who know, like, and trust me and love me and want to keep working with me. And I don't have anything to give them. So, it's, it's like basic, but it's not, it's, it's easy to forget, I think.
[00:16:22] Rachel: Right. And like what a good problem to have, right.
Because it's always up. Like, you can easily. If you're smart about where you're spending your energy, you can always create that ladder up and really refine that so that you do have an next spot, but it does feel a little overwhelming when you're there. And you're trying to plan like, oh my God, I just, I just launched this and now what do I like now?
You have to think about another thing. Like it does get overwhelming, but I promise in the sense of like, once it's together, the fluidity of that journey, it's so effortless and sustainable. Cuz if you've already said, like, I know what I'm serving in this offer and in this offer and in this offer, literally being able to either like work backwards from your high ticket, down to your like entry level.
Like, it's just kind of like, I don't know. It's super flowy. Like not a technical term, but definitely how I describe it is that like, it's so intuitive. It's your, business' like next steps.
[00:17:25] Jordan: Yeah. It's so gorgeous. So I love the word flowy, actually, and I think , I think too, the caveat that I'll mention is that obviously this is gonna work for some
business is better than others. Like for me and my business, I don't think a lot about Ascension models because I'm a service based business. I'm an agency. And the service that I provide is meant to be ongoing. And I think that's different for some service providers because they're doing more like tech setups or things like that, where you do need a next step.
or maybe you're just specializing in that. And, and you're choosing not to have a next step for people, but for me, it's kind of built in, in that I'm trying to get you in and then you're gonna get addicted because you're not ever going to want to go. And so I don't really need to have an Ascension model because my offer solves a problem that you're going to have all the time until you just like massively outgrow us and need to like, create an HR department and hire a bunch of employees.
[00:18:28] Jordan: Right. but I just wanted to mention that because. You don't have to have an Ascension model, but for, but for a lot of service providers and for coaches, and for course creators like a lot of the people that, that you and I both work with, they do, they do need to at least be thinking about this. So, yeah, I feel like I was gonna ask you something now.
I can't remember what it was, on the, on the Ascension model piece, cuz I wanna come back to the automations. What is the structure that you've identified that works really well for your business?
[00:19:03] Rachel: Yeah. So I will say that it's all dependent on the audience that you want to kind of amplify. So I would say probably the, the majority of the people that live in my like top of funnel audience, like total awareness are. The very, very, very beginning of my, kind of like product suite. So they'll come to me.
Maybe they don't have a lead magnet. Maybe they never email their list, or they don't even have an idea of what an email list can do for their business. So then I push all traffic and awareness into my like, step one, like, first of all, let's get your essentials done. Let's decide how are we drawing people to your email list then?
How are we gonna keep building your email list? So all of those, like basic starter kit kind of vibes, that's where I push them to. Cause I'm like, you know what? I'm not gonna work against myself. I've done the analysis on my audience. I know they are not on stage three. They are stage one. Let's talk to them, let's focus there.
But then I also have those people that come to me and are already ready for my. Done for you like strategy consulting, partnership, the way that I've built my ladder is that it moves up and down. So, unfortunately, well, I guess it's not really, unfortunately, fortunately I have a very beautiful retention rate.
I have people in my MI like my me minimum container for my retainers are three months. I have people stay with me for 12 plus months. Like, that's just my retention like that. They come, they say, okay, yes, I'm never doing this on my own ever again. And I don't ever want to . but you know, we can always cap out on automation.
We can always cap out of your business. If you're saying I love my offer suite and I love the way that my automations like flow together. There's no need to pay me to just tell you, okay, your automations are working or, you know, people, you have this many leads coming in a week and da, da, da, da. So at some point, then we do down shift into check in with me quarterly, your stuff's on autopilot, check in with me quarterly and they kind drop into this kind of container.
Exactly. So that's kind of the way that I've always structured it, but from an outgoing, like I'm embracing social media, unfortunately, as an introvert, I'm gonna talk to the people that are, the people that are going to fill that first funnel spot and that first like product suite so that they can then climb the ladder and then come back down the ladder and it's a hundred percent working smarter and not harder.
Cause I've tried that before and it is, oh man, you wanna throw your laptop out the freaking
[00:21:59] Jordan: window? And I'm. People are gonna, everyone's gonna get used to this being. Jordan gets advice on her business show, because I wanna talk about automations because I'm definitely not like that, that initial ideal client for you, as far as like, I don't, like I have an email list.
I email my list fairly regularly. I'm comfortable with that. I have funnels in place, all of that stuff, but it feels like an absolute shit show mess. And I think that's because like, like most business owners and visionaries, I have new ideas all of the time, so I'm adding funnels. And so I've got. I don't know, I've got at least half a dozen freebies, probably more, you know, and I'm not yeah, yeah.
Yik well, and a lot of them we'll bring that down. Trip wires and different things. So I, I make regular sales on digital products where I don't have to do anything because when I do have ideas and I create something, I'm like, well, I might as well connect it all together. And so if somebody downloads the freebie, at least I'm going to hopefully be making some money off of that.
and then those are the people who, you know, like, and trust me even more and then potentially might wanna work with me in some other way in the future. So I like that it operates that way, but there's definitely no. There's not a lot of like cohesion or thinking through, am I tagging people appropriately?
[00:23:25] Jordan: And then am I only emailing certain segments of my list about certain things? Yeah. I'm just like, oh, I'm gonna email my list. And I email everybody the same thing. so what would you do with someone like me?
[00:23:39] Rachel: you're not alone there. A lot of people do that. first step. I would create a visual of your entire ecosystem from a funnel and email perspective.
So what I do, this is what I do when I come, or when people come to me for like a full funnel intensive, I say, okay, first before we touch anything, one, because when you start touching one thing, it's going to then affect 10 other things. So. Getting a high level visual on where things connect, what pushes to, what, how do you then kind of get that?
Like, I'm so bad with saying this, what is it? Eagle eye, like when you're all the way over it. And you're saying like, okay, this is everything. Then, then I work towards tags. I say, okay, where do we need to clean this up? Let's like, let's, let's just say we're keeping everything as is. Is there places where I can then say a person's behavior in funnel a can then eventually send them to funnel C.
Okay, beautiful. Yes. We've identified that then. What is that behavior? How do we track it and where do we identify it? I use, there are some, what email platform do you. Okay, I'm gonna say, cuz there are some platforms that don't use segments, don't use tags. They use just pure automations that move from here to there kind of thing.
You document those. So documentation, when it comes to your automation, is it sounds so lame, but it's the most important thing because if you have a list of every single tag that you say tag a pushes to funnel B, when someone's tag tag B, they then get moved to funnel a, you can see how it's this kind of flowy thing.
I've audited, some funnels where, oh my gosh, there were so many dead ends. I was like, this is not a funnel. This is a sequence. Yeah. This is a sequence. And it stops
So, so really looking at like the entrances and the exits of every funnel is where you kind of start mapping out tags.
[00:25:46] Jordan: Yeah. I keep going. This is great. I could go on and on and
[00:25:49] Rachel: on. So you, you tell me when to stop, but so you want to like literally identify movement in your email list by like three or four things.
actually let's simplify it three things. So how they get onto your list, what behaviors they're taking and what categories they live in. So they get into your list via resource guide. Then they go into your welcome sequence. So that's a behavior. Once they're out of that welcome sequence, you take that in welcome sequence out.
[00:26:21] Rachel: There's so many layers of kind of like. Preventative measures. You want to just always document what somebody's entering, what somebody's exiting, what somebody's like, what links are there clicking. If they click mastermind link four times, we're going to assume they're a prospect. That's another tag prospect mastermind.
Then you have a new segment. You say active, active people out of funnel B that have clicked this link. Four times should always have prospect mastermind as their tag. There you go. Send them an invite to apply kind of thing. Like there's so many beautiful things that you can document. This is why I get so obsessed when it comes to email marketing, because yeah, it's so flowy.
If you embrace the technology, if you go in and just throw. Spaghetti at the wall and kind of say, this is a sequence, this is a sequence. And that, I don't know who's in what, and I don't know how they got there. You're gonna, yeah. Hate it. It makes so much sense. You're
[00:27:26] Jordan: gonna hate on marketing. Some kind of like mindset hang up for sure.
Around only emailing parts of my list about things. So I did a launch a few months ago and I emailed everyone every single email. And it was because I was like, well, what if there's someone who they don't open all my emails and they like, really need to know this, like this FOMO. This could be the one email that like speaks to them.
You know,
[00:28:00] Rachel: you're not alone in that. There are so many people that without those tags and without those kind of. Ramp up things like, I would say every launch should have a ramp up that you are putting feelers out there for someone to take permission based action. Like obviously when it comes to email marketing consent is a big thing, right?
Like you get spam flags. If you don't, if you send like blast out messaging and whatnot, the way that I always run strategies is just based off of permission and consent based. So I'm not gonna push you into a launch if you have never even told me anything that you are interested in this or have any insights.
if they have raised their hand on a particular piece of content, or if they have taken like site views and they've watched this video or clicked on this link, when I phrased it in a way that's gonna be problem solving. Those are all things you can document before you ever launch. So you have that like little segment that you say, these people are interested in this topic, and then you just invite them, say, Hey, I'm about to launch this.
[00:29:14] Rachel: If you wanna exit, here's the link to exit. If you wanna participate, raise your hand kind of thing. Like there's so many ways, like just the way there's so many ways to run a business. There's so many ways to like, use your email marketing, to mirror the values in your business. Like there's huge, like ethical selling, ethical marketing layers that you can bring into this.
And it's so it's so unique to you. Like it totally is like, I sure. I will say you've never, ever, ever clicked a link in my whole life. I'm gonna put you to a campaign that says, tell me who you are, who are you? And what are you interested in? Those things are. Just, you know,
[00:29:55] Jordan: yeah. It's, the possibilities are endless.
It's definitely important for me here because I actually do a fairly good job of tagging people. I just don't do anything with it. So in Kajabi, and I don't know if anybody El, anyone who uses Kajabi, I used to have a little bit of beef with them because I love their platform. It's all in one. I use it for everything, courses, website, email marketing, all of the things, and I'm obsessed with it.
But their email marketing was subpar to say the least . And it was partly because they didn't provide click reports. And so you would be able to see, okay, I sent this email out to 2000 people and 150 people clicked, but if I had multiple links in. No clue, no clue. If everybody clicked on the mastermind link.
Yeah. Or if half the people clicked on this other link, you could not see that unless you manually added an automation in each individual email every single time within the last month, they changed that. And I am so thrilled because now I can actually see if I send an email out and I'm like here, the three things that I'm offering this month, I can see exactly who clicked, which link it's so basic.
I can't believe that they weren't doing that before. and so now I can just see it automatically, but before I was going in and adding on the, the automation so that if someone clicked my co services or my whatever mastermind, it would tag them with like mastermind, interest, click or something. , I'm pretty like literal with my tags and yeah, that's great.
But it's also great if you don't ever do anything with your tags. So like. What am I supposed to do with those
[00:31:44] Rachel: I mean, one of the things I always say that your email list gives you is visibility into who's on your list. the level that they're at and like what actions that they're taking, you don't have to do anything with them. Let's say you have an engagement person that like, okay, let me back up a bit, because what I always say, I will preface what works in your business.
And I always tell people this, if you kill it at closing in the DMS, do not expect to change the behavior of your audience by forcing your email list to do that for you. So that level of like insights that you have, they're clicking on this, they're clicking on that and they've taken action, whatever that looks like.
If you are more confident in saying, let me export this list, I'm gonna put 'em in my click up and make this my like weekly engagement for these people that works too. That supports your business just as much as forcing somebody who would rather have a conversation check in. Yeah. It
[00:32:53] Jordan: makes total sense.
Email makes sense. Does that make, like, does
[00:32:57] Rachel: that make sense? Like. That's where I will always say your email list does not have to be your main character in your business. It can be a supporting character and that's
[00:33:08] Jordan: complet love that. Fine. I wanna take it back little bit to product suite and see if we can connect some of these concepts to, let's say we have, some type of an Ascension model going on where we've got maybe like a paid workshop in place.
Maybe we've got some type of, mid price group program, and then maybe we've got like a, a membership or some kind of low cost offer. That's ongoing more like maintenance style. Mm-hmm what are some ideas around how you can automate getting people through that, that Ascension.
[00:33:51] Rachel: So, okay. We have a paid. Paid masterclass
[00:33:55] Jordan: or paid workshop. We have a membership. What was the third one? Mid price group program. So kind of in the middle, like maybe, maybe most of the time you're offering a paid workshop, selling people into like a mid-price group program and then you've got the low cost membership and then after yeah.
[00:34:16] Rachel: Yeah. So, I mean, obviously you have a beautiful upsell down sell happening there. So you have paid master class upselling into the group, and then the group downselling into for like maintenance support into the membership. What comes into play with this type of structure is understanding what is gonna take if immediate wins and actions from paid workshop actionable goes to group.
What's that timeline? How do we then say, you've spent this much money with me. Let me just give you that money back. If you join this group program and push it, there there's some urgency, like you can layer into it saying I'm gonna make this a massive incentive for you to take this next step. I'll give you whatever you spent on this workshop.
I'm gonna put it directly to your group program because, oh my gosh, it is next level for you. And it's your obvious next step. Like that's what I always tell people is when you're building your products, we what's the obvious next step. Like it has to like, be as simple as that, like, hello, I have literally created this next thing for you to enter.
It. Doesn't need to feel like a brand new program. It doesn't need to feel like it literally just needs to be a step for them. Cuz you're saving yourself so much work. If you could say we covered one component of what we talk about in the masterclass or I mean in the group program, you got so much out of this.
Let's finish the, let's finish the rest of the components in here. Like boom, step up kind of thing. Then the step down. You talk kind of pain point wise, do you say like, you know what, just because you've set your pricing once or just because you've set your email sequence once does not mean, and you will never have to deal with that ever again here.
I'm gonna teach you how to analyze. I'm gonna teach you how to, you know, optimize and take this to more of a structured side of your business that is then doing this. This is like, obviously we don't know what this magical offer suite is, but that's kind of the messaging shift that it would come into, like messaging automation and like that product suite.
It's all a beautiful ecosystem that comes together. That you're saying, all right, here's next. Okay. But you're not done yet, but I'm not gonna still charge you a hefty price tag for this. I'm gonna support you through this. Like that's where I think like the human based marketing approach is like the most successful one is if you take it out of this, like.
Heavy sales like vibe and say, and this is your next step and da about you say like, no, no, let me tell you why you need this. And like, I'm so excited for this part of your business, because when you go from here to there, oh, it's gonna be incredible. Oh, but you're not done yet. You still have to, you know, maintenance, you still have to send to your email list.
You still have to like, look at your numbers. And this is where I'm gonna tell you how to do that. Like, oh, it's gonna be so good. It's beautiful. When you can like flow like that into it feels effortless right. For yourself. And for that lead going through it. Cuz when, I mean I'm seeing some pretty manipulative tactics on the online space of people like bombarding them and urgency and all of this like ugly, ugly, like marketing tactics to get from here to there.
People will go because maybe they're people pleasers, maybe they're feeling really crappy about their business because all of this marketing told them how much it sucks and how, if they don't do this, they're not gonna get to that next step. It's just your approach on how you lean into it. It's definitely personal preference.
Obviously. I'm not shame in anybody that does that. but I have seen it work really beautifully when you approach it from a human perspective and blend messaging products.
[00:38:08] Jordan: We, I was just talking some about this a day that I feel like people are kind of over some of those tactics anyway, like ethics aside and preferences aside.
Like if I see something like that, I'm kind of like, yeah. Right. I mean, there's definitely a se there's definitely a time and a place for sure. For urgency, like cart closing. Like obviously we're not gonna keep our carts open all the time and take people on indefinitely. So like, , I think there's a difference between actual urgency and, you know, pretend urgency but also same thing with like, people have capacities if you're launching a group program.
Right? Exactly. Realistically you have a certain amount of spots in there. I realistically have a certain amount of spots that I can bring on new clients any given month. And so there's, there's some of those things that are like real, scarcity and real urgency, but, but I think people can kind of recognize when it's like a fake sense of urgency.
and we're all kind of over that. I was just having a conversation with a client and, and a friend about, you know, the, the webinar tactics, And making it feel like you have to sign up at this given time. It's like, well, I know it's prerecorded , you know, so stuff like that, I think people are kind of, we're all savvy enough these days.
[00:39:27] Jordan: I think that we, we, we know that when we see it. yeah, but what was the other thing that I was gonna say? What, what else did you, were you mentioning there?
Um, well, I will add to that, like transparency in your messaging is ultimately so crucial when it comes to sustainability, because if you burn the bridge of that lead, because one you've manipulated them to get in that program that trust that like connection that you've had there is gone. Right? So now they feel like crap, they're in your program.
[00:40:00] Rachel: You Del you deliver, maybe you don't deliver, but they're always gonna remember. That like heart pounding feeling of them paying for that program. Transparency in how they come in from one side and go to the next side, like one of the most important things that I always say for people to have set up in their product suites, especially if it is an Ascension plan is check-ins with the people.
So if you do a strategy session, how do you then check in with them after to move them to that next step? Not how do you send them a marketing message or sales message? How do you truly check in with them from a place that's like caring and then, then move them along into the funnel. Like people will always, people are always shocked when I'm like that doesn't have to be a marketing message.
Yeah. That can truly just be a personal message. where you're saying, Hey, how you doing? How's that going? What's gimme your progress update. Yeah. Yeah. It's I think nobody does that, right. I'm just
[00:40:59] Jordan: like, or something by. All of my clients, I would consider to be really heart centered, you know, ethical kind, you know, people.
And so two years, what I was gonna say earlier was that, with these maintenance programs and things like that, and having an Ascension model, it's even more important. I feel like for people who are that way, because when people come into their businesses, they come into their ecosystem. Even if there's not like an obvious offer or an, or even an obvious problem, once they've gone through one of your programs, when you have a really heart centered, genuine business, people just wanna be in your atmosphere.
Like they just wanna be around you. So like they go through your program and then it's like, Well, you, maybe I don't have something for you, but, but they're like, but I wanna stay, like, I wanna stay with you. Like, I wanna keep doing this. Like, this is nice. I wanna keep talking to you or having check-ins or so I think, especially for people who have businesses like that, people who are ethical and genuine and, and kind and caring and like super appreciate and love working with their clients, it's even more important to have some type of Ascension model where you, you are continuing to give people the opportunity to just stay in touch with you, even if it's, you know, not high touch.
and so I've been thinking about that a lot more recently. Again, it like , I, I love this maintenance, program membership model, and I've been thinking a lot about it for myself. Mm-hmm and I don't know if it totally fits in because. The nature of my services are kind of like that by themselves. but I just love the idea.
[00:42:46] Jordan: Like I'm trying to find a way to like force a membership to work for my business. I don't know. Do you ha you have something like that though, right?
[00:42:52] Rachel: I don't have a membership. No, I have, just my maintenance, like packages that people can book with me. It's obviously. they give a special rate, cuz they've already been either a high ticket or mid take ticket client and then they just pop into like, I'm I'm will tell you if you become my client, I will never kick you outta my don't tell people that because I love my clients so much.
Like I have clients. I know, I know I have had clients that I think we've been off board for maybe more than six months, but I know they're launching still. You need to
[00:43:24] Jordan: go back, listen to episode one about boundaries,
[00:43:28] Rachel: but it's so true. Right. But I mean like when you do love your clients and you attract like kind of what you're saying, these heart centered people, I become just as passionate about their business as they become about being a part of mine.
Yeah. I mean, I've had clients that are like, okay, we're we have literally accomplished everything we wanna accomplish, but like, I'm not ready to give up my spot with you on your client roster. Well,
[00:43:56] Jordan: you're doing, you're doing like a quarterly check. You gotta go somewhere. So it's not, so maybe I'll zoom out and say that maintenance programs as we're calling them, don't have to be a membership.
I think memberships work really well for that, but it can be something more of like a package based thing where right. They get, you know, one quarterly call or, you know, every other month you check in on a call or something like that. Is that how you're structuring it?
[00:44:23] Rachel: Yeah. Essentially. Yeah. They have access to these links to book forward.
Mm-hmm way more in advance than like anybody would typically have. so they can set their. Their annual calendar out, knowing they have automations and tracking and links in place. And all they need to do is either get the strategy, fine, tune it. If they're offering a new bonus in their launch, like whatever that looks like.
I've had some clients who launch on a quarterly basis that will schedule quarterly calls with me. So we'll plan, we'll have like a month out to assess, like, and I, I will tell you, I make all of my clients look at their numbers. So not only is it just coming from me that they're looking at numbers, but they're also looking at it on their own.
They're kind of absorbing that CEO, like analytics side of things. Like, how do I understand what's working? How do I understand what's not working? And so that way, when they come to those calls, they're so prepared with like, Hey, I think this is what was driving the most, you know, conversions last time, but like, let's make sure.
Every post-launch recap is then included and we kind of comb through it. So yeah, that maintenance is whatever that business looks like. Like if they're launching a new product, they'll be like, oh no, no, we need more than 90 minutes on this call. to really push this and plug it into your funnel properly.
So it's just kind of, I always say people's businesses are like their own fingerprints. Like they're so unique to them in the sense of like their audiences and their goals. Like I have had clients that have never launched a brand new product for like over a year and they just kept their core, like foundational components, like of their offer suite and they thrive.
But then there's other people that create new products, cuz they're so inspired like every other month and they also thrive. Like there's no wrong way to do it as long as it feels good for you. That's always what I always, what I'm leaning into is like if this maintenance plan, takes you from. Happy and loving your clients to then stressed out and burnt out.
You need to reassess that, like you cannot live in constant. Like, I don't know, overdelivering mode kind of thing. Like it's always an assessment of what feels good for you in your business. That's how people burn out is when they ignore that, that vibe and that energy
[00:46:36] Jordan: that I feel like it's half. How does it feel?
And half what's actually working because you may feel fabulous about your offers, your, your product suite and your offers. But if no, one's buying them and it's not working or retention socks, like we maybe need to rethink something and make sure, sure. We're balancing those things. yeah, for sure. yeah.
so. When we, that is so true. What other kind of like insights, when we think about product suite, what comes to mind for you as far as like how to actually keep it simple? Because for me, my problem is like, I just have too many ideas and I have a hard time just like sticking with my standard. Yeah. Like offers.
[00:47:21] Rachel: Yeah. I mean, I always, what it comes down to with me is that like, for people that have like big, big ideas, I've actually just helped somebody. totally just a friend, not a client where she had this big idea. And I said, girlfriend, you are 1000% over delivering in. Container. There's no way this is gonna be sustainable.
So we took a quarter of it, made it a mid tier offer. Another quarter of it made it its entry level and kind of took this massive, massive container and broke it into like four quarters and then made that their product suite so that it was a true, like, okay, you've accomplished this. We've gotten that done.
It's beautiful. Now let's move on to this. Okay. You've gotten that done, but you're still making them raise their hand at every time. Cause I'm like, sometimes people don't want half of an offer that comes with it. They're just like obsessed with like 50%. They're like, oh, I need you to do my copywriting.
And I need you. Like, I'll use my, my own offer. As an example, I need you to do my copywriting and I need to grow my email list. Sometimes people don't care about their tags or they don't care about their analytics, but they're obsessed with half of the offer that that makes them like, come in and say, oh, I'm obsessed.
So if you break that half. And then like you move them through that kind of ladder to say, like, raise your hand for this next step, raise your hand for this next step. Those big, big ideas that you have can constantly be evolving because then you can just change a component, then you can just change another oh, another component.
yeah, it's just kind of like that evolution of it, I think is where it's crucial. But yeah, I mean, so I think essentially like what I was saying when it comes to that is like taking these big ideas.
[00:49:06] Rachel: If you constantly have brand new ideas and there are these massive, like high ticket offers breaking them into its own little Ascension plan so that you're not like, let's say you have a new idea about this component. Like if we've broken up. This massive idea into four components. You don't have to rebuild the ship every single time.
You can be like innovative and change component one. You can be innovative and change component three, and it's not rebuilding the wheel every single time. It's literally just embracing your creativity and like enhancing sides of things. Like also to say that will beautifully create urgency in your business because if they're like, oh, this girl comes out with a new idea, every single quarter.
This truly sounds amazing. I have no idea if this is going to exist in another couple of months like that in itself, if you're transparent about like, I have beautiful ideas, I have beautiful, offer creation abilities. Like people will know, like I better jump on this
[00:50:10] Jordan: man. Yeah. See, I just don't know.
It's so tough to like apply it in real time. Right. Because I love that advice. And then. I just, when I think about, okay, how can I apply this in my own business? So I have the service based agency. I have my mastermind, just combination of strategy and done for you with the agency. And then I've got some like digital products that are passive, that like templates and, you know, courses and, things like that.
My problem is where I get ideas around like, oh, I should have a membership or, mm I'm gonna run a paid masterclass on how to build an agency, which if anyone's listening to this DME, if you're interested, because if the idea is validated, I will actually do it. but like I get random ideas and I see my clients dealing with that too, where they're like, Ooh, I wanna like do this thing.
And it doesn't necessarily. Fit in anywhere. It's almost like you have to create like a, another Ascension model for this one idea is how it feels. And maybe that's just me, but that's, that's where it comes in for me is like, oh, well, okay, I've got a quarterly planning intensive. So should I create like a little mini Ascension model or funnel just around that.
And then at the end of the day, I end up with like a thousand ideas for products and offers and it's not, I mean, I haven't done this, right? Like this is the, the thing that I'm fighting all the time. And I know my clients and people listening, I'm sure like listening to this being like, yeah, this is my problem too.
I have too many ideas and we don't necessarily act on all of them, but it's like kind of like this constant flow of. Should I act on it. Yeah. Does this fit into the Ascension model? I don't know. I'm kind of like asking you to solve my biggest baddest
[00:52:01] Rachel: problem right now. You know, what's hilarious is that I've actually seen that pop up, paid masterclass work wonders for people with these ideas that are like E like never, ever ending.
I have seen people execute those, no pitch, like literally just paid master classes, two, three day series or whatever, and you get it out creatively, you get it to your audience and then you just release the expectation that anything's gonna flow anywhere else. Use the Ascension for that to be truly just trust building, you know, like interesting.
It, it, that's where it's like so beautiful where energetically, if I were to, if I were to do that, oh, heck no, I would be so tired, but the people that are constantly like, boom, boom, like constant ideas flowing to them. I have seen so many people launch these paid master classes and literally transparency, no pitch at the end of this.
Like, just come and get your templates, come and get your, you know, structure set up, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they get it creatively out of their system and they're happy with it. And it's like, you've just built so much trust with them that they came paid, got so much fricking value and you did not pitch them.
I've seen a lot of people going the no pitch route. I love it.
[00:53:24] Jordan: I love it. Cuz trust. That's really smart. Yeah. I, I appreciate this because I think this could potentially be my solution because. I think I do try to blow it outta proportion almost in that. Well, I can't do it unless yeah. I have something that's gonna make sense after.
Right. So like totally flying in the face of everything that we said earlier, but that was more about like our ongoing offers. Right. If you're gonna be launching the same program four times a year, and you don't have anything for people to go into after that, that's a huge missed opportunity. If, if like what you said, you just need to act on some of these crazy whims yeah.
That you have as a visionary. Maybe it does make sense just to run it as like, oh one time paid thing doesn't even necessarily relate to any of my other offers. Maybe it does, but not like in an obvious way and not necessarily in an appropriate way when it comes to like price. Yeah. Does it make sense to go from a paid master class to a $4,000 monthly retainer?
Eh, I don't know. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't, but it's a good way to just get the, get the creative energy out. I like this idea. I think you might have actually solved my problem. Good.
[00:54:41] Rachel: Thank you. Good. And I mean, I will completely add, I typically use, what is it called? the Ascension plan synonymous with client retention.
So sometimes flipping that together and saying like, I don't physically need four products with this, but how can I also just retain a client, build their trust and get them. To continue making purchases with me, those paid master classes may be the injection that somebody might need in their business.
Once a quarter, whenever you run them that they don't need any additional support, but if they keep purchasing those, like those classes from you, that's an Ascension plan. That's retention. That's the whole goal of an Ascension plan is to create customer lifetime value and right client retention, you're doing the same thing.
You're just not doing it through moving them up a ladder and down a ladder. You're saying my whole ultimate goal is just to keep you learning, educating and trusting me. Obviously keep paying me too, but but you know what I mean? Same exact purpose, same exact goal. It's. It's different.
[00:55:55] Jordan: yeah. What do you, this is kind of related kind of now, what do you see working?
Well, as far as, you know, in the context of an Ascension model. And I think we go back to the example that we were using earlier with paid masterclass to pitch a group program, and then after some type of maintenance membership or maintenance program, if we have that structure in place, which I think is a really beautiful structure.
and one of my clients kind of has that, and I hope she's listening. She knows this is about her, but, have you seen it work well or work at all for, at any of these points in the process, these inflection points, does it ever worked to give two options or, or is the simplicity. The critical piece, like can at, at the end of the paid masterclass, you say, Hey, I've got this group program.
[00:56:41] Jordan: Or, you know, if you wanna work one on one with me, you can, you know, like, does that, do you see that working really well? Has that worked for you or is the simplicity
[00:56:50] Rachel: key? I honestly always default too simplicity. If you give people too many options, it's so overwhelming or even just an option if you give them here and there, but this is where knowing your customer journey and knowing your I client.
So well comes in where if you could essentially just have them raise their hand from a prompt or something, don't even lead to a pitch, have them raise their hand and have them identify what would be different from a one-on-one or a group. And then take them down that journey separately. Never. I mean, I've seen some people do it and granted.
I don't know the transparency of people on the internet. , they're a little sketched sometimes. , but I mean, it might work depending on how you pitch it. I've always seen the success of saying, I know your next step, because I'm your mentor. I am, you know, whatever that looks like. And then let me take you down this way.
And it's all in the conversation, like all in the conversation, cuz you would never say like, like if you go to a store and like, I don't know, like a perfume store and then they're like, oh, I don't know if that's actually a thing, a perfu perfume store. But if you walk in and they're like, what do you want?
We have 25 different things. And you're like, what? I don't know. I dunno, what do I need? What do I like? That's the feeling you're trying to like over, like you're trying to like avoid. yeah, but simply if somebody like said, well, do you, what's your favorite? Like floral. Oh, okay. Here, let me take you to this floral kind of thing.
Like it's so easy to just like start with a conversation rather than start with a pitch. And that's what I'm always talking about is like, don't just assume have them validate it, have them say, oh, you know, I actually really love hands on support. I've never seen success in a group container because I always am afraid to raise my hand and blah, blah, blah, that whole conversation.
You would never pitch to them a group program. Right? You'd be like, yeah. Oh my God, come here, come here. Let me take you to the corner. Let me give you personalized attention. come here, get outta this group over here. Don't wanna overwhelm you. It's just so crucial to have those validation like checkpoints, whether that's like in just a reply reply to this email, you'd be surprised how many people are surprised when they're like, oh my God, you get replies to your emails.
Like. Yes, you don't like, what do you mean? Like it's a human on the other end of this. Like, what is happening. So
[00:59:29] Jordan: yeah, just simply replying. I am always surprised when I get replies. Really? I will, I will admit, I, it just, I don't know, like , it feels, so I feel so disconnected. I think, especially like once your list gets to a certain size, it's hard to even wrap your head around the fact that you were sending an email to that many people.
True. It's just difficult. Like the, the, our, our human brains are not meant to understand things like this. I don't think. And so then when someone replies I'm like of snap, that's awesome. I know they actually read my email. It really
[01:00:04] Rachel: does bring it like personally back. Like, it makes it more of a, like an actual connection rather than like, oh, I guess I gotta send this email.
Let me, let me get it out. Kind of thing. And yeah, so I I've seen a lot of like, especially cuz like what I've. what I've done with my clients now is take a newsletter strategy approach where we make these emails like an actual structured, like love note or strategy. And then it's always a prompt, always a prompt to respond and you, oh my gosh.
I love it. I love when people respond. Cause obviously we track those and I'll be like this person's constantly responding to you. Like, why don't you like have a conversation with them on social kind of thing. And it's just relationships, right? Like that's ultimately what it comes down to. So
[01:00:51] Jordan: for sure.
Well, I'm trying to think if there's anything I was gonna else. I was gonna ask you on your
[01:00:57] Rachel: let's talk about your 15 lead magnets.
[01:01:00] Jordan: oh, geez. Dude. I it, so this is my problem, right? Like this is it's the same thing. It's it's the ideas mm-hmm . . I mean, I'm making new resources all the time, partly just because it's stuff that I'm using in my own business.
Yeah. I have like the most, like, I don't know, like self . I don't even know how to describe this. When I work on stuff for my clients, it benefits me. And when I work on stuff for my business, it benefits my clients. It's just like very circular. Yeah. And so I'm able to create resources and create content, not outwardly on social media, because I don't really do that consistently, but internally in the business and for clients, I'm creating content pretty rapidly.
Like we create a lot of SOPs. I just did a podcast launch. What did we do? We documented the entire process. We created an SOP for it. We have template emails, all the things who's gonna benefit from that any of my clients that everyone will launch a podcast. yeah. You know, so it's, it's just, it's constant and all of those things can present themselves as products to me.
Yeah. but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to always be putting those things out, even though I, now I like your paid, workshop idea, but every once in a while it does make sense. Yeah. and I try to double triple quad, quadruple dip as much as possible on things like if I'm creating a freebie before some type of bundle that I'm going to be in as like a kinda like visibility marketing strategy.
Well, then I also then need to set that up on my own in my own, business to be some type of like funnel and maybe there's another opportunity to use it. So I, I think. even though I do that, it still has gotten kind of out of control in the number of things that, that I have available and they, they're not optimized.
Like how would you help someone like me
[01:03:02] Rachel: oh man. Well coming into like, okay. So I you're like, I wouldn't touch that. I would, I would, I got, I got so many ideas. yeah. I mean, gosh, I always try to, in any sequence as, trust builders provide additional resources inside of the actual sequence. So layering them. I would
[01:03:25] Jordan: start there. Oh, hold on. Time out.
Cuz you need to know something really important. I have all of these lead magnets and freebies. Obviously you say
[01:03:35] Rachel: email, you have no welcome sequence. I'm disconnected. There's an email that
[01:03:41] Jordan: gives them the thing mm-hmm but that's it. Oh,
listening. Don't do, as I do do, as I say wow. it's bad. It's bad. I'm embarrassed. I'm legit. I'm not even gonna publish this episode.
[01:04:05] Rachel: cut this out. Just kidding. Cut it out.
[01:04:07] Jordan: No, Phil. Don't cut it out. It's really important. People didn't even know this.
[01:04:11] Rachel: Yeah, I would start there. That's where I would start. Yeah, that's bad.
Yeah. I mean, think about the way that a email list funnels and supports your, I always call it a lead incubator. I don't call it a lead generator. I call it a lead incubator. You have generated that leader ready? It's going to sit there and it's going to literally process and improve and like engage. And those welcome sequences are crucial for that crucial.
[01:04:44] Jordan: Okay. So start email marketing one on one folks. You need a lead magnet. and you need a welcome sequence. Let's start with one.
[01:04:53] Rachel: We're not gonna go crazy with 14 or however many you might have right now. Start with one. Oh. And then simplify it down. Like, oh man. You'll I mean, you would be surprised how many people.
Literally convert via welcome sequences, just because of how strategic you're building that trust. And you're like, yeah, literally bread crumbing and providing opportunities. Like when I think of a conversion, I don't think of it as somebody paying money. To me, it's either getting on a sales call, it's taking an action that I want them to take.
If I'm creating a prompt, having them reply to an email, that's a conversion as well. What is it to, it's gonna like support that goal. And I will tell you if the second you get those welcome sequences in place, you will see just how gorgeous it can actually support your Ascension plan.
[01:05:47] Jordan: Okay. Okay. All right.
Every time I get on a podcast interview, I have 8,000 new ideas. So this is like, you know, I'll put it on the list, but actually I do think that this is probably. One of the most important things that I could do. Yeah. is spend some time, not launching a membership, not creating some kind of new product, but just creating a simple, welcome sequence.
What is like, do you have a standard structure that you recommend for those or like number of emails?
[01:06:16] Rachel: It depends on end goal. So what I always start with is I tell people, what is the purpose? What purpose do you want? Like when I say, want your email list to work for you, I want it to be like a true, like employee in your business.
What is it doing? Is it generating leads or generating, sales calls? Is it selling a mid ticket item? Like what is it actually doing? You don't wanna give it too many responsibilities because then that's where the carols happens. yeah. Yes. You don't wanna burn out your email list. but you wanna give it one purpose.
So I say start there. If your purpose is the long haul and selling high ticket. Then that like Nurture's gonna be longer, right? Because like incubation for true lead is probably about 60 plus days. Like if you're really, really working it. Yeah. I mean, I've had clients who, even for memberships, like depending on how severe the pain is, like where it's affecting their business and their life, the action that they're ready, like ready to take doesn't happen until like month four, because they one need some translation in their brain of what this actually does and what it actually touches.
All of those things come through education, come through, like literally bread, crumbing them and taking them from one step one, step one step, rather than saying welcome to my email list. Now, gimme your money. Like that's not how it should work at all. So I would say it depends like if your goal is to just get them on a sales call, typically that's a lot shorter of a, of
[01:07:50] Jordan: an action.
I don't.
[01:07:53] Rachel: I got, I got no basic answer for you. How many,
emails. All right here, I got more specifics. I got more specifics cuz I know I'm putting you on the spot. So first of all, if I look broadly at how people come onto my list, we've got a small number of people coming in through Facebook ads and a, an application funnel, which it's a small number, but these are highly qualified leads compared to how other people are getting onto my list.
[01:08:26] Jordan: So obviously that needs a sequence and I actually have one, I just haven't connected. It just needs to be tweaked a little bit, been on my list for about two weeks. So let's ignore that for now because. I know the, the flow and the steps, and I already have the content for that sequence. And those people are special because of how they came in.
Not, I mean, everyone's special, but they're unique in where they're unique in where they are in my, yes, like in how they know me, the rest of the people come onto my list in probably like two main ways they download a freebie, one of many mm-hmm or they download my service guide, which I would actually not consider a freebie.
Right. Like, that's different. So do you recommend, in cases like that, having kind of two different welcome sequences, if somebody comes in from a freebie, they get something maybe a little bit lighter with like a lot colder promoting my podcast, right? Yeah. Or maybe like, maybe I'm like, Hey, this is who I am and the things that I offer.
And if you wanna get to know me more, listen to my podcast. Yeah. Is, does, is that kind of like a standard approach to that? Yeah. So think
[01:09:32] Rachel: about the warmth and like the temperature that they come into, if. Service guide. They're a lot warmer. They're a lot, a lot further down the road. Maybe they've been lurking they've already like sweeped your website.
If they're freebie lead magnet option, they're trying to solve a pain point. and this is where, like, when I come into like lead magnet design, we consider purpose of email list. We consider temperature of lead and really like come into that development side of things. cuz if it's somebody that's like a template, are they like a quick fix?
Like what do we know about somebody that would need this type of template in their business? How do we get them to then warm up, build that trust throughout and then have them take whatever that action looks like at the end of it. Hang I'm gonna pause. Cause my dogs are barking. Yeah.
and so like whatever that looks like at the actual end, you have so many factors that go into. if you already have a lead magnet, what do we know about them? but service guide deliver that service guide. You follow up with them, you give them your social proof and you have them take action. Like that's, it's so much shorter because they've already said, I am going to fill, I'm gonna hire somebody, somebody doing a template might literally be thinking I'm gonna DIY the crap out of this and never think about hiring anybody.
[01:10:53] Rachel: So they've not raised that flag yet. Or that hand of saying, I give up, I give up, somebody do it for me.
[01:11:00] Jordan: so for cuz I think the service guide one makes sense and it's more on par with like my application funnel and that like a lot of the content that's in that welcome sequence or nurture sequence could translate over to that.
And maybe the, the next step for both of those is probably like book a call or DME to chat about the right package for the freebie people in particular. Is there like a standard. Length of an email sequence that you recommend. I
[01:11:27] Rachel: mean, again, I'm gonna give you what it depends. it depends on what your newsletter strategy looks like.
So in your newsletter, like how do you get them ramped up trust and then into your current education, like cycle, if you don't really have a newsletter, I would play that as a long game from your newsletter sequence. Like just give somebody the exact same experience every single time. If you know, you can't be consistent from a actual, like newsletter, weekly, biweekly, whatever that looks like to you, then a thousand percent you, you, you kind of like do the work ahead and then like give yourself grace and saying like, okay, anytime somebody welcomes or comes into this, they got three months of nurturing that is going to then end them in a proper position for.
Action. If you're like, heck no, I got these newsletters. I am killing it on there. It's all up to date. It's exactly what I want them to hear. Shorter. Seven emails, maybe six, seven emails. dang. That's
[01:12:29] Jordan: a lot. What? Isn't that a lot? I don't know. No.
[01:12:35] Rachel: I mean, anybody that takes action in them is gonna kind of funnel themselves out.
Like somebody that takes action and email four is going to not get emails 5 67. So what
[01:12:47] Jordan: are like standard actions that you would put in there? So we've got like a, so they let's say they come in on a freebie and let's just say that the freebie is something that was connected to a trip wire and they didn't buy.
And then I would say, cause here's what I, here's what I don't wanna do. Yeah. Here's what I don't wanna do is like, have to come up with like eight different welcome sequences, depending on like things. So if we go back to this principle of simplicity yeah. What is something that someone in this scenario me, but probably other people might be in this same boat, say they don't have a welcome sequence or it's not very good.
And they do have several freebies. What are like the really critical things that need to be in this welcome sequence that we could like get done, you know, this week, like I could go write a couple emails and like, is that even worth my time? Or do I really need to like think more critically on it? I
[01:13:50] Rachel: mean, I would say categorize your freebies, right?
So what are they, is it ops? Is it marketing? Is it sales? Like where does it live in that business hole that it's filling, categorize them like that if you have three of the same that are like same ops side of things, So then, like what, what layer of ops hiring systems is it like all of it. Okay. Yeah. So if it's a way, way you could almost do, and again, I'm doing this completely without even seeing them.
So it might might change if I go and like lurk your page and be
[01:14:25] Jordan: like, no, no, no, no, no. ,
one like this, the first email that's actually delivering is all different, right? Like you're saying, like, here's your freebie, this is what it would, you get, hope you to get out of it. Like, you know, whatever the next five emails, if it's all ops related, then I would say point them to the same place simplify, right?
[01:14:46] Rachel: Give them a content. Upgrade in email two or email one or email three. Give your mission your, what was the
[01:14:54] Jordan: content? All those things.
[01:14:56] Rachel: So like what's a freebie or what's a resource that's gonna build trust. Is it a podcast episode where you talk all about ops and what ops are like? So it's saying like, here's your first resource, and then here, I'm gonna say, here's your next thing.
I want you to like, take a look at, you're not saying here's your first resource and I know you didn't actually take action or
[01:15:18] Jordan: book the, so go download somewhere trip wire or
[01:15:19] Rachel: doing so like learn more, understand it's like problem awareness, right? You're taking them from problem awareness. You're taking them from an awareness cycle, cuz if most nine times outta 10, they didn't purchase that trip wire is because they didn't see that it's gonna solve anything of their problem either they're unaware of their problems or in complete denial and just kind of need to be reframed a bit.
Yeah. So. It's all into that like, journey. Like you can like, think about like, let's bring Ascension plans into it. Like this welcome sequence is an Ascension plan. Right, right. You're giving them a first action. They're raising their hand, you're giving them a next step. You want them to consume that? And then you're giving them another next step that serves and kind of flows into it.
So it just kind of all should feel flowy.
[01:16:12] Jordan: Yeah. Mm. Flowy. Right. I, I like it. It's
[01:16:17] Rachel: hard to explain
[01:16:19] Jordan: no, no, no. I think it makes complete sense. And I think there's some nuance around this content upgrade thing that I wouldn't have thought about before, which is I probably would've gone straight to go listen to my podcast, but I think more, what you're suggesting is give them a specific, a specific episode to listen to like.
Because it can kind of intention, probably a little overwhelming and in just less compelling too, to say, go listen to my podcast versus, Hey, go listen to this specific episode where I talk about X, Y, Z. Oh, okay. That's way more. That's way more likely to get clicks. I would imagine exactly. At what point do I introduce myself?
Email two, email two. So in email two, I'm like, ah, you got my thing. Hey, here's who I am is what I do go listen, but always tie it.
[01:17:12] Rachel: Always tie it back to the problem they're trying to solve. Mm-hmm so I always, I'm always fluid when it comes to the intro emails, because nobody really cares, right? Like they don't care about you an email too, yet they want their resource and this is your opportunity to show I'm not pushy.
I'm invested in this. So you don't use it as an opportunity to like list out your whole resume. You use it as a opportunity to build support and kind of accountability. So that's kind of how I always lean into it when I'm saying like they don't carry yet. We just gotta show them their supported through this.
Yeah. Cause if they are a brand new lead to your audience, they don't really like, you know, don't care what you have really to drink in the morning or about your morning routine. Once they become raving and obsessed, then they're like, okay, I wanna know how you are so successful. And then that's when that no, like trust starts developing.
Yeah. Like not literal morning routine, but like, you know what I mean? Yeah. So in the case of ops, like you're saying, you know, you are so overwhelmed, you are not delegating because you have zero SOPs. That intro story may be related to delegation and SOPs, like, Hey, just got done, right. An SOP from my team.
But I realized I didn't introduce myself kind of thing. And then you bring in like the importance of what you do less about you, more about where they're currently
[01:18:48] Jordan: at. Mm-hmm . Okay. So yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah. We're probably gonna have to change the title, the episode to something about, I know, email marketing, email marketing, we just couldn't help ourselves.
Right. I literally cannot. It's just been, it's been top of mind and I, I knew I was gonna wanna like pick your brain on some stuff. So , this was fabulous for me. right. okay. Well, I love it. And I do think it kind of, I, I think you connected it really well, brought it all back together with, you know, product suite and why it's important for things to be simple and not overly complicated, because that for me is why it's difficult to wrap my head around how to set some of this email marketing stuff up is because there's so many moving pieces when it comes to freebies and offers and all of the things.
And, mm-hmm so this is, this is helpful. And, and, reiterating to me the importance of simplicity in the offer suite. So I love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah. so I wanna ask. We'll have the, we'll have in the show notes, how people can like find you and connect with you and all the things. But I wanna ask if you have anything else related to product suite or related to email marketing or related to any of the things that you think we just really need to know that we didn't get to dive into.
I mean, I
[01:20:00] Rachel: will just lean real heavy into intention. Everything you do in your business must have an intention when you are. Like literally coming up with all of these ideas and you're thinking I need to get started with social media. I need to get started with email marketing. What is the purpose that it solves for you?
Imagine it's an employee, what are the tasks they're going to do? And truly, truly, truly just embracing, being intentional with it. Cuz if you start doing things that are just because everybody's saying to do them, you're going to, why not do it? you're gonna like, oh, sorry. Nope. That todo list is, or that todo task is gonna come up on your list.
And you're gonna say not today, not today. so literally I would say everything you do, especially when it comes to your product suite, when it comes to embracing automation and moving people through your Ascension plan, it is truly just do it with purpose and intention, cuz that is the root of everything.
that's how you will end up with. A bazillion, chaotic things in your business and feel overwhelmed. So yeah, don't
[01:21:13] Jordan: ignore intention. Understand your why. Mm. I love it. What a great place to end it all comes back to it so much. I really appreciate you joining me. This was super fun.
[01:21:22] Rachel: Awesome. Thank you. This was a blast.